Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
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Originally Posted by
Stormin 
By the way, I don't think teachers are underpaid. They have all holidays off, including a couple weeks at Christmas, spring break, etc. and get sick days also. They work about 200 days per year. Pretty good benefits also. Not as bad as you might think. And most retire with a pretty good pension and benefits.
My brother (Cycopath25) or any other teachers here like tigerhoops can probably explain this better. They work more than an 8 hour day like most of us here plus if you have coaching obligations your days are pretty much busy from the time you get up till when you go to bed. How many here have to grade papers at night after you get off work? They also have a very limited ammount of personal days during the school year and they just can't use them whenever sometimes either. Yeah having the summer off would rock, especially if you didn't coach any sports but From August through May/early June you pretty much are tied to work and long hours. How many of you think you could live the way you do on a teacher's salary plus have to put in all the extra work that goes into it?
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
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Originally Posted by
Stormin Glad you gave W the credit for NCLB. W also gets the credit for the Prescription Drug Benefit for Medicare. IMO those are two of the worst pieces of legislation we have ever had.
As a conservative that voted for GWB twice, these are both "big government" pieces of legislation that will cost us dearly for virtually nothing in return ultimately. Throw in the advent of the Homeland Security Administration with the TSA and you have a third horrible decision by Bush.
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
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Originally Posted by
travman23 My brother (Cycopath25) or any other teachers here like tigerhoops can probably explain this better. They work more than an 8 hour day like most of us here plus if you have coaching obligations your days are pretty much busy from the time you get up till when you go to bed. How many here have to grade papers at night after you get off work? They also have a very limited ammount of personal days during the school year and they just can't use them whenever sometimes either. Yeah having the summer off would rock, especially if you didn't coach any sports but From August through May/early June you pretty much are tied to work and long hours. How many of you think you could live the way you do on a teacher's salary plus have to put in all the extra work that goes into it?
This isn't really a fair assesment for the 'underpaid' argument. I'm 34 years old and know a couple of teachers in the metro area that are within a few years of my age. They make a bit more than I do per year. I often work longer than an 8 hour day. I take work home all the time. I have to travel for work 2 weeks out of each month--away from my family. Add to that I also have coached sports teams on my off time, in addition to family time and of course an addiction to Cyclone Fanatic. We all have pulls responsibilities in our lives. I'd venture to guess that most people in the real world don't strictly work an 8 hour day with nothing additional on their plate. Working in the insurance industry and getting paid less than some teachers my age---where is the outrage and call for more money for the insurance employee? I work hard, my job is VERY important--you all want and need insurance, right? Why am I so grossly underpaid?
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stormin By the way, I don't think teachers are underpaid. They have all holidays off, including a couple weeks at Christmas, spring break, etc. and get sick days also. They work about 200 days per year. Pretty good benefits also. Not as bad as you might think. And most retire with a pretty good pension and benefits.
:no: As a teacher I am not sure where to start with this Thread. I could go round and round with a lot of you people on many issues. I think for the sake of time and argument I will refrain from this discussion as long as I can.
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
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Originally Posted by
dosry5 This isn't really a fair assesment for the 'underpaid' argument. I'm 34 years old and know a couple of teachers in the metro area that are within a few years of my age. They make a bit more than I do per year. I often work longer than an 8 hour day. I take work home all the time. I have to travel for work 2 weeks out of each month--away from my family. Add to that I also have coached sports teams on my off time, in addition to family time and of course an addiction to Cyclone Fanatic. We all have pulls responsibilities in our lives. I'd venture to guess that most people in the real world don't strictly work an 8 hour day with nothing additional on their plate. Working in the insurance industry and getting paid less than some teachers my age---where is the outrage and call for more money for the insurance employee? I work hard, my job is VERY important--you all want and need insurance, right? Why am I so grossly underpaid?
. . . :arghh::arghh::arghh::arghh: . . .
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
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Originally Posted by
cycopath25 . . . :arghh::arghh::arghh::arghh: . . .
Please elaborate. I for one think teachers are paid fairly. That's why I have considered getting certified to be one, especially if salaries keep inflating for them like they are currently. No one forces anyone to coach in their spare time, it's their choice (and I haven't heard of anyone doing it because they "have to", it's usually out of love of sports or just wanting some extra income to help, not feed, their family). Not to mention guaranteed raises pretty much every year. Their union is both good and bad for them. Start documenting 15 hours days while getting paid 22k and I'll start sympathizing.
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dosry5 This isn't really a fair assesment for the 'underpaid' argument. I'm 34 years old and know a couple of teachers in the metro area that are within a few years of my age. They make a bit more than I do per year. I often work longer than an 8 hour day. I take work home all the time. I have to travel for work 2 weeks out of each month--away from my family. Add to that I also have coached sports teams on my off time, in addition to family time and of course an addiction to Cyclone Fanatic. We all have pulls responsibilities in our lives. I'd venture to guess that most people in the real world don't strictly work an 8 hour day with nothing additional on their plate. Working in the insurance industry and getting paid less than some teachers my age---where is the outrage and call for more money for the insurance employee? I work hard, my job is VERY important--you all want and need insurance, right? Why am I so grossly underpaid?
If you're in the insurance business and underpaid, either you haven't performed well enough to move up the ladder, or you're young and will soon be making a much higher salary. Teacher salaries don't increase the way salaries do in the business world.
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stormin By the way, I don't think teachers are underpaid. They have all holidays off, including a couple weeks at Christmas, spring break, etc. and get sick days also. They work about 200 days per year. Pretty good benefits also. Not as bad as you might think. And most retire with a pretty good pension and benefits.
This doesn't seem like you. Is something wrong?
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
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Originally Posted by
CloneFan65 Teacher salaries don't increase the way salaries do in the business world.
You're right, they don't. In the business world you usually have the fear of failure/getting fired in the back of your mind while in teaching you know that you'd have to sleep with one of the students to get canned. I haven't heard of teachers losing their job because they weren't teaching good enough, maybe I'm missing out on those stories.
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
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Originally Posted by
CloneFan65 If you're in the insurance business and underpaid, either you haven't performed well enough to move up the ladder, or you're young and will soon be making a much higher salary. Teacher salaries don't increase the way salaries do in the business world.
You obviously don't work in the insurance industry then.....it takes all kinds of jobs and duties to make the industry go--it's not all executives and sales people raking in the big bucks. And I perform very well at my job, thank you very much. The point is--I chose this job, this career path. It's what I did in the service, it's what I went to school for, and it's what I do now. I knew in the beginning I wouldn't be highly paid doing this so I don't complain about it now. Sorry you didn't quite catch the sarcasm.
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
As someone who has taught at both a private college with merit pay raises and a public college with set increases across the board based solely on experience, I'm strongly in favor of merit pay for teachers. I know it's difficult to quantify the abilities of teachers, but administrators know who the good instructors are. It can be frustrating when I take pride in my work and put in extra hours working on committees, etc. and I know I'll get the same raise as the faculty member who shows up for class and that's about it.
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
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Originally Posted by
wonkadog You're right, they don't. In the business world you usually have the fear of failure/getting fired in the back of your mind while in teaching you know that you'd have to sleep with one of the students to get canned. I haven't heard of teachers losing their job because they weren't teaching good enough, maybe I'm missing out on those stories.
Amen. People disappear from this building all the time and often it has nothing to do with their performance---it's a numbers game, all about dollars and cents. No union here to keep me employed regardless of talent/performance/economy.
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
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Originally Posted by
dosry5 You obviously don't work in the insurance industry then.....it takes all kinds of jobs and duties to make the industry go--it's not all executives and sales people raking in the big bucks. And I perform very well at my job, thank you very much. The point is--I chose this job, this career path. It's what I did in the service, it's what I went to school for, and it's what I do now. I knew in the beginning I wouldn't be highly paid doing this so I don't complain about it now. Sorry you didn't quite catch the sarcasm.
Unfair of me to question your work ethic. Sorry. But my point was that there are opportunities in the business world for promotion that there aren't in teaching.
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wonkadog You're right, they don't. In the business world you usually have the fear of failure/getting fired in the back of your mind while in teaching you know that you'd have to sleep with one of the students to get canned. I haven't heard of teachers losing their job because they weren't teaching good enough, maybe I'm missing out on those stories.
That's the tenure. That comes into play at/after the 4th consecutive contract (or is it year? I forget) within the same school disctrict. Before that, teachers don't know if they will get a contract extension or not. Many of the young teachers fresh out of college struggle to get to tenure because of teachers moving from different schools within the district, taking their job away from them because of someone with tenure.
Re: Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?
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Originally Posted by
CloneFan65 Unfair of me to question your work ethic. Sorry. But my point was that there are opportunities in the business world for promotion that there aren't in teaching.
Apology accpeted, thanks. And you're right, there are more opportunities for advancement in the business world. But you have to couple that with more opportunity for failure and loss of income due to the economy.
