Charles Gabus Ford, the worst customer service ever !

[iowaboy]

Its nice to hear from a "Good" car guy like yourself. We got the first Honda Cars in our Dealership in 1972 and used to pick up the rear enda and spin them around in the showroom to **** the Manager off.

While it is true that initially the "Foreign" Market here in our Dealerships did not subscribe to those tactics...... They have now . I like your reference to the "pie." In our Honda shop people were told at 30,000 miles thay had to spend 300-400 dollars to keep the car in complience which brings up the question, are foreign cars better or do you spend alot more money on their "Preventative" maintenance. I opt for the latter for if you drove a domestic car 120,000 miles using Honda's strategy, that would give you 1200.00 towards repair bills.

Foreign cars used to sell for sticker or close, not any more.... they too have become a child of the same prostitute......

[iowaboy]

Heres a better line, when someone tells you that so and so will sell a similar car for thousands less than your asking..... I tell them that so and so is a very good dealer and certainly KNOWS what his car is worth.....

[iowaboy]

Again, they are successful "IN SPITE" of themselves..... Shameful!

[cyfreddy]

There is NO steadfast formula for the way used cars are priced. I usually go to the auctions and see what the dealers pay for them, add in for freight back to the dealership, repairs to pass inspection, then the INFAMOUS DEALER PACK, (300.00 to 1000.00) and go from there. I never figure the dealer pack however. That is a amount the dealer ADDS to his cost that the salesman doesn't know about or get if he does. It enables the dealer to AGAIN, make a profit if the customer negociates really well. PLUS, the dealer will not pay the salesman on the pack. Most salespeople recieve 25% of the gross profit of a sale and if the pack is 600.00 then the dealer basically rips the salesman off for 150.00

Thats why there is so much turnover in the car business. Its easy to get hired...... and easy to get fired. revolving door for sure and IF you try and do it the right way and buck the system, they will oil the hindges..... God, I don't miss it at all.

Okay, where do you go to find a good used car in the $2,000 to 4,000 range without being took ?

[Psyclone]

somewhere I saw a piece on the three buckets dealers try to make money.

1. price of car
2. price of trade-in
3. finance rate

the volume of all three are always the same... take some out of bucket 1 and they add (to their favor) into another bucket. so the 'sum' of all three buckets is the same no matter the deal.

Anyone else see that show/article?

-keep

There is lots of good advice for buying cars on the Internet and sites that let you know what the invoice prices are and how much of a kickback the dealers are getting. Many will also give you an idea of a fair profit for the dealer depending on the type.

You will also find advice not to complicate the deal my including the trade-in. Get the price nailed down for hte new car first as if you aren't trading in. Then either sell your old car yourself or negotiate a trade-in price separately.

I've got all kinds of stories about negotiating on new cars that I have bought over the years. I recommend McEleney Metroplex in Iowa City. I had a pretty simple deal on my last car because the new car price was set because of a supplier's discount. In that case it was just a matter of what they give me for my trade-in. The offer I got from McEleney was thousands of dollars better than the Lithia dealership in Hiawatha which is about a mile from my home. I negotiated locally for hours and got nowhere. McEleney's first offer was made in about 30 minutes after the owner had a chance to drive my car and look it over. I took their offer to lunch to think over, and decided it was such a good offer, I accepted it without any further negotiation. I never do that, but I figured I could spend hours and get a hundred or maybe two hundred better, but I decided to reward them for a good offer right out of the chute.

I believe when you travel to a dealer in another town, you have better luck. I guess they figure they have one chance at you and that's it.

[iowaboy]

Traditionally the large dealers don't fool around with vehicles in that price range. There is not as much room for profit, vehicles in that range are harder to nail down as there is really no book that would properly give you the parameters you need. After all, A cream puff thats 3 years older than a comparable vehicle thats a little rough will be worth more but the book doesn't help you in that regard. Most New car dealers 'Wholesale" those vehicles to the corner lots.
BTW NEED TO KNOW!!! Kelley Blue Book is the Dealers best friend when trading for your car because it seriously under-values your trade in AND seriously OVERVALUES their vehicle on the retail side. DO NOT allow a Dealer to quote you KBB!
NADA is what most use but it too has its flaws. Its printed 6 months in advance and for that reason doesn't show current trends. When gas went up to 4:00 a gallon, it didn't show the immediate impact of depreciation on the gas guzzlers because the books were already in circulation. The Black Biik does a weekly update but its mostly for Dealers use at Auctions.
Edmunds is a real fair assessment for the buyer as it provides the best all around picture and actual numbers to be fair to all parties concerned.
When buuying a used car if the dealer tells you its a local trade in ask for that persons name and call them on your own time to verify mileages, conditions, accidents, service records etc. If the dealer refuses to give you that information ask to look at the title as it will show the previous owners name and you can go from there. IF you get neither take the shortest distance to the door and hit it running.
IF its a auction vehicle its a little harder to get information on the previous owners but a Carfax will help in that regard. It won't show the previous owners name per se' but will give you loads of useful information. Bear in mind, the previous TITLE will supply you with the previous owner. Get the VIN number and have them run a Carfax on the vehicle and that will help. If they already have run a Carfax look at the date on the search and that will help you as to know how long its been on their lot! Pay attention to lapses in the vehicles history. Average mileage is 12-15 K per year therefore IF you see where ANY vehicle has a period of time where as it only was driven 5-6 k in a year......thats evidence its probably been laid up in a body shop somewhere.
ALSO, Carfax IS NOT a indication that ANY vehicle has never been in a accident. You need to take a potential vehicle to a Body-Shop to determine that fact. I would do that ONLY after you have agreed on a price SUBJECT to your having it inspected by a body shop and a mechanic. IF the mechanic has issues with the vehicle bring it tothe Dealers attention and see if they'll fix the issues etc. Ask the Dealer if their service dept inspected the vehicle and what in actual dollars did they spend on the reconditioning. Then ask for the documentation to see if their story holds up. IF the body shop says its been in a accident bear in mind that sheet metal damage is of no concern as long as its been fixed properly. Front end collisions are bad as their might be structural damage and concerns you can't see. ALSO, IF you want to see if the vehicle has had HAIL DAMAGE, then put the vehicle under flouressant lighting and the dings will pop out at you like a bull-frogs eyes.

[iowaboy]

Forget the three bucket nonsense. Basically there are a number of ways a Dealer can make his profit. IF you decide to handle your OWN financing that does take away a good sourse of revenue for the dealer. But IF a dealer wants to take a short deal on his car and go balls and all in your trade in thats what he will do. DO not allow a dealer to close you on payments as he'll stretch the term and make himself alot more money.... ALWAYS close the deal on price and handle your own financing unless GMAC, FORD, or the FACTORY has really low finance rates. Again, DO NOT mention payments as its none of their business unless you give them the baton. Then prepare to get beaten to death with it.

[Phaedrus]

Okay, where do you go to find a good used car in the $2,000 to 4,000 range without being took ?

From a private owner. Especially one who undervalues their car. There are things to look for when finding people like this.

I have three right now in my sights, that if they aren't sold by next Monday, two of them are mine!

[SUPERBUNNY]

Ahhhhh, the dreaded car thread! I always love to see the comments on these things. I've been in the business for quite some time and work at a store that prides itself on being straight with their customers and we have an owner loyalty rate that definitely suggests that they are happy with us.

I'm not going to deny that there are a lot of games that go on in our industry. Many of them are the result of incentives that the manufacturer puts out there. Over the years, the car salesman and the dealer have earned their reputation. With the internet, I believe that all started to change. Those that have adapted are succesful and those that haven't are dying a slow death.

What advice can I give a person. Here it goes:

1. Do your research. The internet is your friend. KBB, Edmunds, and other sites are good resources. Find out what vehicles like what you are interested in are selling for in the area. Research what you want, research your trade value, and know what you can afford. Many mistakes are made on impulse purchases. What is the dealer supposed to do, say "I don't want to sell you that car today, sleep on it and make sure you are making a logical decision."? It is up to the consumer to take care of themselves.
2. Use Carfax when buying a used car. Most dealers will provisde a copy to you at no charge. You don't need to do it at home and pay the $30.
3. If the dealership has the permission of the previous owner to let prospects call them than by all means do it. It is good info. If a dealership doesn't give it to you it doesn't mean necessarily mean they are hiding anything. It just makes other tools like Carfax more valuable.
4. The biggest thing is to find a dealer and more importantly a salesperson that you like. There is huge turnover in our business but every store has people that have been selling cars for a while and they are committed to the business which means they are committed to their clients. We all have a grocer, barber, jeweler, banker, etc. that we trust. Why would you not want to find someone that you trust for a purchase as big as a vehicle? There are good dealers and bad. Find a winner and stick with them!!!
5. The absolute best price isn't the end all be all of the decision. It never ceases to amaze how people can get this just crazed look about the "best deal". They will drive from store to store and subject themselves to whatever each place does. Get a fair deal and buy it from the place that treats you the best. Tell them that they are getting the business because of their professional approach. That is the type of customer any dealership wants and will work hard to keep satisfied. Listen if you go to two steakhouses, A and B, and they both have an identical meal but the services at A shine versus B, which one are you going to back to? Look at car dealers that way!

There are many more things that a person could mention but the bottom line is that if you follow the above, you will have the best chance of not getting screwed, taken advantage of, or whatever you call it. When you look at sites like this there is good and bad advice but most of it is junk. You can take or leave mine just the same.

It troubles me to see someone like Iowaboy who seems to paint such an ugly picture of the industry. He seems to know it all and yet has disdain for it. Too many times it is someone who wasn't succesful in the industry and it was everyone's fault but themselves. When he talks about "dealer packs" and things like that it just proves the point. Every dealership structures their payplans in their own way. The customer doesn't have any need to worry about that. All that masters is the way they were treated, did they get a fair deal, and is the payment affordable.

The auto industry is definitely going through a tough time right now which puts even more advantage in the hands of the consumer. Use the tools available and you will increase your chances of having a great experience. Then stick with that dealer just like you stick with ISU!

One final thing. The auto industry is a great place to make a great living. Car sales is a profession that can very easily be a $70,000+ per year income for people that are self-motivated and love to talk to people. I encourage people that are tired of their boring 9-5 job to consider it. Those that work hard and take of their clients can make a good living almost instantly. You just have to stay out of the huddle of the salespeople that are standing there smoking cigarettes. Women have a really good opportunity in this business to make a great living. Women control 90% of the vehicle bought and they would prefer to work with another woman. Fellas, wouldn't you prefer to work with an attractive lady as well? It might make the whole process less "painful".

That my $.02. Take it or leave it. Do the research. Be careful. Take care of those that take care of you!

SUPERBUNNY

[Palmer]

Ahhhhh, the dreaded car thread! I always love to see the comments on these things. I've been in the business for quite some time and work at a store that prides itself on being straight with their customers and we have an owner loyalty rate that definitely suggests that they are happy with us.

I'm not going to deny that there are a lot of games that go on in our industry. Many of them are the result of incentives that the manufacturer puts out there. Over the years, the car salesman and the dealer have earned their reputation. With the internet, I believe that all started to change. Those that have adapted are succesful and those that haven't are dying a slow death.



What advice can I give a person. Here it goes:

1. Do your research. The internet is your friend. KBB, Edmunds, and other sites are good resources. Find out what vehicles like what you are interested in are selling for in the area. Research what you want, research your trade value, and know what you can afford. Many mistakes are made on impulse purchases. What is the dealer supposed to do, say "I don't want to sell you that car today, sleep on it and make sure you are making a logical decision."? It is up to the consumer to take care of themselves.
2. Use Carfax when buying a used car. Most dealers will provisde a copy to you at no charge. You don't need to do it at home and pay the $30.
3. If the dealership has the permission of the previous owner to let prospects call them than by all means do it. It is good info. If a dealership doesn't give it to you it doesn't mean necessarily mean they are hiding anything. It just makes other tools like Carfax more valuable.
4. The biggest thing is to find a dealer and more importantly a salesperson that you like. There is huge turnover in our business but every store has people that have been selling cars for a while and they are committed to the business which means they are committed to their clients. We all have a grocer, barber, jeweler, banker, etc. that we trust. Why would you not want to find someone that you trust for a purchase as big as a vehicle? There are good dealers and bad. Find a winner and stick with them!!!
5. The absolute best price isn't the end all be all of the decision. It never ceases to amaze how people can get this just crazed look about the "best deal". They will drive from store to store and subject themselves to whatever each place does. Get a fair deal and buy it from the place that treats you the best. Tell them that they are getting the business because of their professional approach. That is the type of customer any dealership wants and will work hard to keep satisfied. Listen if you go to two steakhouses, A and B, and they both have an identical meal but the services at A shine versus B, which one are you going to back to? Look at car dealers that way!

There are many more things that a person could mention but the bottom line is that if you follow the above, you will have the best chance of not getting screwed, taken advantage of, or whatever you call it. When you look at sites like this there is good and bad advice but most of it is junk. You can take or leave mine just the same.

It troubles me to see someone like Iowaboy who seems to paint such an ugly picture of the industry. He seems to know it all and yet has disdain for it. Too many times it is someone who wasn't succesful in the industry and it was everyone's fault but themselves. When he talks about "dealer packs" and things like that it just proves the point. Every dealership structures their payplans in their own way. The customer doesn't have any need to worry about that. All that masters is the way they were treated, did they get a fair deal, and is the payment affordable.

The auto industry is definitely going through a tough time right now which puts even more advantage in the hands of the consumer. Use the tools available and you will increase your chances of having a great experience. Then stick with that dealer just like you stick with ISU!

One final thing. The auto industry is a great place to make a great living. Car sales is a profession that can very easily be a $70,000+ per year income for people that are self-motivated and love to talk to people. I encourage people that are tired of their boring 9-5 job to consider it. Those that work hard and take of their clients can make a good living almost instantly. You just have to stay out of the huddle of the salespeople that are standing there smoking cigarettes. Women have a really good opportunity in this business to make a great living. Women control 90% of the vehicle bought and they would prefer to work with another woman. Fellas, wouldn't you prefer to work with an attractive lady as well? It might make the whole process less "painful".

That my $.02. Take it or leave it. Do the research. Be careful. Take care of those that take care of you!

SUPERBUNNY

no thanks.

I wouldn't take that job for any coin in the world.

[dmclone]

Good info.

#5 is right on the money. I think it's funny that people about cry or threaten to walk out over $100 but then turn around and pay $500 for some magic paint sealant.

[throwittoblythe]

I just put the paperwork in for my first car purchase. I went to Hummel's in Des Moines. I'm getting a 2008 Nissan Altima 2.5SL. I worked with Robert M. All in all, it was a good experience. I'm sure because it's my first purchase I will be paying a little more than I could be. I did all my research and I think they are giving me a fair price and that's what matters to me. I was really worried about getting screwed, but Robert did a great job working with someone who was obviously very green. I started looking in June and told him at that time I wasn't going to buy anytime soon. I told him that what they had offerred at one point was just too much for a college student to pay and he was fine with that, but said they couldn't go any lower.

Actually, I reserved my vehicle yesterday. They only had two black ext. and black int. left on the lot and they both had a technology upgrade I didn't want. The upgrade was $1000, but he told me that would only raise the price of the car $200 because they knew I didn't really want it. So, I think he did a great job and I'm glad I got paired with him because some of the other guys in there seemed like stereotypical salesman.

Like I said, I'm probably paying a few hundred more than what I could haggle for, but according to Edmunds and KBB, I'm getting a fair price. Interest rate they're offering is 4.9%, so that's much better than I could get from a private lender with a college student no-credit history. I highly recommend Hummel's!

[SUPERBUNNY]

no thanks.

I wouldn't take that job for any coin in the world.

It's not for everyone!

It does however provide an opportunity for someone that is hard working and self-motivated. It doesn't require a college degree.

Sure can beat working the line for $11/hour.

SUPERBUNNY

[drmwevr08]

Okay, where do you go to find a good used car in the $2,000 to 4,000 range without being took ?

Private party. While its still buyer beware, take the car to a mechanic and check it out. The price will more than likely allow for a repair of two if needed. In the last 6 weeks I sold two cars in the 4-5k range, priced them lower than any dealer by a good 1500-3k and they were both gone in a snap.

[drmwevr08]

I also read a pretty good program, dont know if its online or not called the fax/email attack. It really only works when buying new. Basically instead of wasting all your time going dealer to dealer, once you've decided the vehicle you want you send the specs to all the dealers youd be willing to drive to to deal with and tell them you are going to buy on some certain date (like within the week) and will buy the best offer. What this also helps the buyer do is catch the dealer of the salesman who may happen to be needing only an extra sale or two to hit some quota, bonus, etc. I think to make that more likely you are supposed to do it at the end of the month.