Iowa Immigration Raid

Cy Heavy · 05-12-2008, 05:30 PM

Did anyone see if Steve King was imbeded with the agents on the raid or building a fence around the town?

clone52 · 05-12-2008, 06:11 PM

First off, its not the individual immigrant that is stealing an identity. They may be using it, but in a vast majority of cases, I'm sure there is someone who steals a bunch of identities and sells them to workers. In many cases, the workers might even think its legit. They probably realize its not quite right, but they don't think too much about it. Maybe more of the hatred should be spewed towards the people who are stealing the identies for profit and not the workers who are using the identities.

Secondly, we need punish the people who hire illegal immigrants. Deporting illegals is the right thing to do, but its not a deterrant. Its a temporary fix to a bigger problem. Building a fence isn't the answer either. People will just find another way in. Imposing the death penalty might do it, but clearly that is overkill. It has to be fixed at the employment level.

Illegal immigrants may cost Iowans $200/year, but how much do they save them through lower food costs? Or lower costs for other items from illegal immigration. If we could wave a magic wand and get rid of all illegal immigrants, people may be thrilled, but how thrilled would they be when the price of meat doubles?

One thought I've had is that what would happen if we created a 'North American Union' and had some control over a minimum wage in Mexico and Central America? I don't know if it work, but its a likely that the best way to reduce illegal immigration to the US is to increase the quality of life in the countries the immigrants are coming from.

My proposal would be this. Make it easier for companies to bring in immigrants to do the jobs that no one else wants to do. Make the companies accountable that all their workers are documented. Then have immigrant workers pay a higher tax and help the tax burden.

LindenCy · 05-12-2008, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by jbhtexas

This is simply not true. If you doubt it, fly to Dallas and check out the emergency room and waiting rooms at Parkland hospital.

Well, around here, it's Parkland Hospital in Dallas and John Peter Smith Hospital in Ft. Worth. You will recieve emergency care at these hospitals free of charge if you can't afford to pay for it. Parkland provides reduced-cost and no-cost non-emergency care to low-income people regardless of immigration status. JPS used to require legal immigration documents for non-emergency treatment, but I'm not sure if they still do.

The local PBS station ran a documentary about this recently. One of the cases discussed was that of an illegal Hispanic woman recieving chemotherapy free of charge. Chemo isn't cheap...somebody's got to pay for that...

I used to live in Garland and visited Parkland once. I am VERY glad that is not my hospital.

Cyclone711 · 05-12-2008, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by clone52

First off, its not the individual immigrant that is stealing an identity. They may be using it, but in a vast majority of cases, I'm sure there is someone who steals a bunch of identities and sells them to workers. In many cases, the workers might even think its legit. They probably realize its not quite right, but they don't think too much about it. Maybe more of the hatred should be spewed towards the people who are stealing the identies for profit and not the workers who are using the identities.

Secondly, we need punish the people who hire illegal immigrants. Deporting illegals is the right thing to do, but its not a deterrant. Its a temporary fix to a bigger problem. Building a fence isn't the answer either. People will just find another way in. Imposing the death penalty might do it, but clearly that is overkill. It has to be fixed at the employment level.

Illegal immigrants may cost Iowans $200/year, but how much do they save them through lower food costs? Or lower costs for other items from illegal immigration. If we could wave a magic wand and get rid of all illegal immigrants, people may be thrilled, but how thrilled would they be when the price of meat doubles?

One thought I've had is that what would happen if we created a 'North American Union' and had some control over a minimum wage in Mexico and Central America? I don't know if it work, but its a likely that the best way to reduce illegal immigration to the US is to increase the quality of life in the countries the immigrants are coming from.

My proposal would be this. Make it easier for companies to bring in immigrants to do the jobs that no one else wants to do. Make the companies accountable that all their workers are documented. Then have immigrant workers pay a higher tax and help the tax burden.

In case you haven't noticed, food prices are already at an all time high and are increasing. Also, there is a program where the goverment allows X amount of workers in from mexico during the year to work on farms and orchards. The problem is that after their "time" is up and they have to go back to mexico many of them don't. Not sure how many the program allows in, but I know we have it.

weR138 · 05-12-2008, 07:53 PM

I love the immigration debate and I'm positive many Sioux, Omaha and Winnebago's around my neck of the woods do too.

Jefferson Davis would be envious of Iowa, we have an endless supply of slave labor. Now, if we could just get undocumented workers to produce gasoline, the price would plummet!

twojman · 05-12-2008, 08:32 PM

My mom does billing for a small county hospital in Iowa. You are all crazy if you think illegals do not cost taxpayers money. There are $1,000's written off each month because of that issue alone.

One more thing, the hospitals cannot legally report illegals, that would be breaking privacy laws.

Cyclone711 · 05-12-2008, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by weR138

I love the immigration debate and I'm positive many Sioux, Omaha and Winnebago's around my neck of the woods do too.

Jefferson Davis would be envious of Iowa, we have an endless supply of slave labor. Now, if we could just get undocumented workers to produce gasoline, the price would plummet!

Funny thing about that is that there is a ton of evidence that Native Americans were not the first humans (as we know them, not cave men) in North America. And that the Native Americans actually ran/killed them off (seeing as they came over from Asia via Russia a while back). I did a whole chapter on it last year, will try to dig up some info.

LindenCy · 05-12-2008, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by twojman

My mom does billing for a small county hospital in Iowa. You are all crazy if you think illegals do not cost taxpayers money. There are $1,000's written off each month because of that issue alone.

One more thing, the hospitals cannot legally report illegals, that would be breaking privacy laws.

Don't be bringing facts into this argument.

Tried to rep you for this, but I need to spread it around.

CTAClone · 05-12-2008, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by twojman

My mom does billing for a small county hospital in Iowa. You are all crazy if you think illegals do not cost taxpayers money. There are $1,000's written off each month because of that issue alone.

One more thing, the hospitals cannot legally report illegals, that would be breaking privacy laws.

How much is written off by Insurance companies though? I had two surgeries two years ago where the Insurance company only paid $5000 when both surgeries cost over 40K. Health care itself is a mess, and illegals aren't the only problem. To blame the cost of hospitals and health care on Illegals is a cop out. They are a very small percentage of a hospitals operating cost.

CTAClone · 05-12-2008, 08:38 PM

Or what about all the people I know that go to Mexico to get their prescription drugs?

Sorry, I'm taking the illegal immigrant thread towards health care. I'll stop now.

LindenCy · 05-12-2008, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by CTAClone

How much is written off by Insurance companies though? I had two surgeries two years ago where the Insurance company only paid $5000 when both surgeries cost over 40K. Health care itself is a mess, and illegals aren't the only problem. To blame the cost of hospitals and health care on Illegals is a cop out. They are a very small percentage of a hospitals operating cost.

I think you have a good point. But I think there are multiple sides at fault.

LindenCy · 05-12-2008, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by CTAClone

Or what about all the people I know that go to Mexico to get their prescription drugs?

Sorry, I'm taking the illegal immigrant thread towards health care. I'll stop now.

I think I would prefer to get my illegal drugs from Mexico and legal ones here.

nj829 · 05-12-2008, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by CTAClone

How much is written off by Insurance companies though? I had two surgeries two years ago where the Insurance company only paid $5000 when both surgeries cost over 40K. Health care itself is a mess, and illegals aren't the only problem. To blame the cost of hospitals and health care on Illegals is a cop out. They are a very small percentage of a hospitals operating cost.

The statement of benefits should reflect the price the insurance company negotiated with the hospital to perform the surgery. The hospital signs a contract to charge X amount for something with the insurance company, so the hospital eats that cost as well.

If companies raise prices because of labor costs, that allows competition to move in since we have a free market economy. If Tyson suddenly prices things $2 higher to cover higher labor, then another company is going to come along and come up with a way to pay similar wages and operate more efficiently, passing those savings on to the buyer, and stealing market share from Tyson. The consumer would still end up the winner because of the free market economy that our country allows.

If a company does the proper research, builds a plant where the area is depressed economically and people need work due to a variety of reasons, you don't have to pay as much because the cost of living is not as high because the overall wages of the area are already low. You have lower costs, so your pricing is lower. Tyson has to combat this or go out of business, and you company becomes the market leader.

CyCloned · 05-12-2008, 08:55 PM

Okay, first off, being an illegal alien is well, illegal. Some of you guys don't seem to have any problem with this. This country has a long tradition of marginalizing what is illegal, so it comes naturally. Is five over speeding? I know I speed all the time. If I got a ticket for 5 over I would be pissed, but I am still breaking the law. Is prostitution really a crime, or is it some times a crime? Do you think it would be hard to find a prostitute at night in a major city? Don't you think the police could find them too? Darn right they know where they are, they just look the other way, just like the government has looked the other way of illegal aliens for years.

The real problem is getting the illegals that are causing the problems out of our county and figuring out a system to assimilate the good workers into the work force in a way that they are paying taxes and for education and medical services.

BTW:A packing plant with a meth lab in it sure doesn't sound like a place with a hard working, nose to the grind stone work force.

bellzisu · 05-12-2008, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by nj829

The statement of benefits should reflect the price the insurance company negotiated with the hospital to perform the surgery. The hospital signs a contract to charge X amount for something with the insurance company, so the hospital eats that cost as well.

If companies raise prices because of labor costs, that allows competition to move in since we have a free market economy. If Tyson suddenly prices things $2 higher to cover higher labor, then another company is going to come along and come up with a way to pay similar wages and operate more efficiently, passing those savings on to the buyer, and stealing market share from Tyson. The consumer would still end up the winner because of the free market economy that our country allows.

If a company does the proper research, builds a plant where the area is depressed economically and people need work due to a variety of reasons, you don't have to pay as much because the cost of living is not as high because the overall wages of the area are already low. You have lower costs, so your pricing is lower. Tyson has to combat this or go out of business, and you company becomes the market leader.

Not entirely true..... Yes that is the whole idea of a free market economy. Does this happen?? Not really. If Tyson or someone raised prices to offset higher labor, and lets say Swift finds a more efficient way, do you really think they are going to drop the price for consumer??? No...... They will lower the price enough to get more business but not a whole heck of alot.

I think your caught up way to much on models of how the economy should work and not actually how it does. Tyson and other companies realize this and they are not going to put more money in the consumer pockets over their. Trust me.. I worked there and know the mentality.

After them losing their butts the last 3 years with higher then life pig live prices, I don't think they are going to look over the consumer first or any other company.