Iowa Immigration Raid

bellzisu · 05-12-2008, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by CyCloned

Okay, first off, being an illegal alien is well, illegal. Some of you guys don't seem to have any problem with this. This country has a long tradition of marginalizing what is illegal, so it comes naturally. Is five over speeding? I know I speed all the time. If I got a ticket for 5 over I would be pissed, but I am still breaking the law. Is prostitution really a crime, or is it some times a crime? Do you think it would be hard to find a prostitute at night in a major city? Don't you think the police could find them too? Darn right they know where they are, they just look the other way, just like the government has looked the other way of illegal aliens for years.

The real problem is getting the illegals that are causing the problems out of our county and figuring out a system to assimilate the good workers into the work force in a way that they are paying taxes and for education and medical services.

BTW:A packing plant with a meth lab in it sure doesn't sound like a place with a hard working, nose to the grind stone work force.

Not all illegals and I'll use packing plants for an example since I worked with Tyson take jobs from "willing good workers" out of jobs. Take a tour of the plant and you will see how terrible their jobs are. And trust me... Even raising wages won't get some lazy butts or willing good workers to take those jobs.

BTW... I didn't know this packing plant was making meth... I'm just defending how everyone thinks illegals are the root of all evil. Yes illegals are illegal, and yes we pay for them in some aspects but we do benefit more then what you think.

I could see packing plants going all automatic like car dealerships, then your going to have people crying that more and more jobs are dissapearing....

Which will help the illegal imigrant problem but also ruin alot of the regular low income workers.

Also, remember.... Where did most of our ancestors come from.... Another country. I'm sure there was just as much complaining and problems when they arrived too... Some of these people are trying to better themselves and create a new life and escape poverty. Just like how many of our ancestors came for religious freedom or a chance at a new life. Its no different from back them except waiting lists to get into the country, so they come illegally.

CycloneErik · 05-12-2008, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by CTAClone

Didn't Socrates say something about the work ethic of the children or something?

That was before he met Bill and Ted.

dmclone · 05-12-2008, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by bellzisu

Also, remember.... Where did most of our ancestors come from.... Another country. I'm sure there was just as much complaining and problems when they arrived too... Some of these people are trying to better themselves and create a new life and escape poverty. Just like how many of our ancestors came for religious freedom or a chance at a new life. Its no different from back them except waiting lists to get into the country, so they come illegally.

If my great grandparents came here illegally then they deserved to be sent back.

bellzisu · 05-12-2008, 09:36 PM

Yeah... well most people didn't come here legally. They became legal once they got here. Back then it was more excepted and easier to do.

Today you have to wait for years to come here legally unless you come for education or you have a work visa which I knew alot of people did at Tyson.... Ok... probably just the decent and honest imigrants

nj829 · 05-12-2008, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by bellzisu

Not entirely true..... Yes that is the whole idea of a free market economy. Does this happen?? Not really. If Tyson or someone raised prices to offset higher labor, and lets say Swift finds a more efficient way, do you really think they are going to drop the price for consumer??? No...... They will lower the price enough to get more business but not a whole heck of alot.

I think your caught up way to much on models of how the economy should work and not actually how it does. Tyson and other companies realize this and they are not going to put more money in the consumer pockets over their. Trust me.. I worked there and know the mentality.

After them losing their butts the last 3 years with higher then life pig live prices, I don't think they are going to look over the consumer first or any other company.

Which is also why they won't be raising the prices substancially because they have to pay more. They will lay people off, cut shifts, etc. to try and keep costs in line before raising prices 100% because they have higher waged employees. They have had multiple lay-offs at the corporate office to keep costs in line.

bellzisu · 05-12-2008, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by nj829

Which is also why they won't be raising the prices substancially because they have to pay more. They will lay people off, cut shifts, etc. to try and keep costs in line before raising prices 100% because they have higher waged employees. They have had multiple lay-offs at the corporate office to keep costs in line.

Exactly.... Tyson cut many shifts and closed certain plants when their profits lowered. They also laid off numerous office jobs or asked them to move to Arkansas, since most people losing their jobs were leftovers from IBP located at Dakota Dunes at the old headquarters and not Tyson's HQ.

When I was there they cut every shift at every plant except for the ones at Storm Lake for the most part. Reason for this was Storm Lake had the cheapest labor was the oldest plant they had and most efficient.

Cyclone711 · 05-12-2008, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by bellzisu

Not all illegals and I'll use packing plants for an example since I worked with Tyson take jobs from "willing good workers" out of jobs. Take a tour of the plant and you will see how terrible their jobs are. And trust me... Even raising wages won't get some lazy butts or willing good workers to take those jobs.

BTW... I didn't know this packing plant was making meth... I'm just defending how everyone thinks illegals are the root of all evil. Yes illegals are illegal, and yes we pay for them in some aspects but we do benefit more then what you think.

I could see packing plants going all automatic like car dealerships, then your going to have people crying that more and more jobs are dissapearing....

Which will help the illegal imigrant problem but also ruin alot of the regular low income workers.

Also, remember.... Where did most of our ancestors come from.... Another country. I'm sure there was just as much complaining and problems when they arrived too... Some of these people are trying to better themselves and create a new life and escape poverty. Just like how many of our ancestors came for religious freedom or a chance at a new life. Its no different from back them except waiting lists to get into the country, so they come illegally.

To me this is a cop-out and I get really sick of hearing it over and over and over again. Did my ancestors come from another country? Yes. Does it have any effect on me today or in the future? No. Do illegal aliens have any affect on me (more-so the country) today or in the future? Yes. The difference is my ancestors came here legally (don't say it was easier back then, leaving behind everything in the old country and crossing an ocean with nothing sure as heck aint easy) and earned their way.

superdorf · 05-12-2008, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclone711

To me this is a cop-out and I get really sick of hearing it over and over and over again. Did my ancestors come from another country? Yes. Does it have any effect on me today or in the future? No. Do illegal aliens have any affect on me (more-so the country) today or in the future? Yes. The difference is my ancestors came here legally (don't say it was easier back then, leaving behind everything in the old country and crossing an ocean with nothing sure as heck aint easy) and earned their way.

Neither is hiring some undesirable, traveling in the back of a rail car, sneaking across a border, finding and holding a job, and staying out of trouble.

bellzisu · 05-12-2008, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclone711

To me this is a cop-out and I get really sick of hearing it over and over and over again. Did my ancestors come from another country? Yes. Does it have any effect on me today or in the future? No. Do illegal aliens have any affect on me (more-so the country) today or in the future? Yes. The difference is my ancestors came here legally (don't say it was easier back then, leaving behind everything in the old country and crossing an ocean with nothing sure as heck aint easy) and earned their way.

Sorry its not a cop-out... It's reality. These people are leaving everything they have to and are trying to earn a way. Trust me I know some Illegals and some that came the legal way. They left for a reason and that was to better themselves. This is the country of the free, the country that everyone wants to come too to start over and make a life.

Kyle · 05-12-2008, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclone711

To me this is a cop-out and I get really sick of hearing it over and over and over again. Did my ancestors come from another country? Yes. Does it have any effect on me today or in the future? No. Do illegal aliens have any affect on me (more-so the country) today or in the future? Yes. The difference is my ancestors came here legally (don't say it was easier back then, leaving behind everything in the old country and crossing an ocean with nothing sure as heck aint easy) and earned their way.

Originally Posted by dmclone

If my great grandparents came here illegally then they deserved to be sent back.

Certainly easy to say once you're already here. The U.S. didn't even bother to really regulate immigration until about 1917, and most of the regulations imposed in that area were motivated by xenophobia. Its really next to impossible for anyone's ancestors who arrived before that point to have come illegally.
History of immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cyclone711 · 05-12-2008, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by superdorf

Neither is hiring some undesirable, traveling in the back of a rail car, sneaking across a border, finding and holding a job, and staying out of trouble.

Woot! Neg repped!

Also, please point out where I said being an illegal alien was easy. I'd be interested to know where I wrote that.

Edit: I also got positive rep for that so that was kinda weird lol.

jbhtexas · 05-13-2008, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by CTAClone

How much is written off by Insurance companies though? I had two surgeries two years ago where the Insurance company only paid $5000 when both surgeries cost over 40K.

How is this relevant to the issue of how taxpayers have to pay for the healthcare of illegal aliens who can't afford to pay for their care and have no insurance? Your insurance company takes your premiums and invests them and uses the returns on that investment to build capital so that they can pay for the costs of your healthcare. As someone else mentioned, what the insurance companies pay for various procedures is usually negotiated.

Other than being under the general umbrella of health care, I don't see how these two issues are related.

CTAClone · 05-13-2008, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by jbhtexas

How is this relevant to the issue of how taxpayers have to pay for the healthcare of illegal aliens who can't afford to pay for their care and have no insurance? Your insurance company takes your premiums and invests them and uses the returns on that investment to build capital so that they can pay for the costs of your healthcare. As someone else mentioned, what the insurance companies pay for various procedures is usually negotiated.

Other than being under the general umbrella of health care, I don't see how these two issues are related.

I did apologize for stearing away from the subject of the thread earlier. I was commenting upon health care in general and stated that earlier. The only correlation I can see that this would relate to is the issue of hospitals closing down because of illegals. I believe there are many reasons that hospitals close down, and it can't be put on illegals as the main reason or sole cause.

[begin hijack]

Back to health care, why can't an individual negotiate their price of health care? Why can't I get the discounted rate insurance companies do?

[/end of Hijack]

tim_redd · 05-13-2008, 12:54 PM

We should be deporting illegals with health problems to Canada, not back to Mexico.

Cy Heavy · 05-13-2008, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by CTAClone

I did apologize for stearing away from the subject of the thread earlier. I was commenting upon health care in general and stated that earlier. The only correlation I can see that this would relate to is the issue of hospitals closing down because of illegals. I believe there are many reasons that hospitals close down, and it can't be put on illegals as the main reason or sole cause.

[begin hijack]

Back to health care, why can't an individual negotiate their price of health care? Why can't I get the discounted rate insurance companies do?

[/end of Hijack]

Have you tried haggling with the hospital?