China vs U.S.

jbhtexas · 05-13-2008, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Phaedrus

The Chinese gov't still executes political prisoners.

The Chinese gov't often bases non-political AND political executions based on how much they can get for someone's organs.

The Chinese gov't STILL suppresses free speech, political parties, and ESPECIALLY religion.

And finally, the ultimate goal of the hardline Chinese government is world domination, one way or the other...period. Apparently, the US is still enough on the ball to eventually catch contaminated foodstuff, lead-filled consumer products, etc. before too much damage is done, so be assured that the Chinese hardliners are looking for other ways to accomplish their goals.

Cystate22 · 05-13-2008, 03:03 PM

We would not have a ground war, as we could contain them enough just using airpower and our navy to blockade their coasts. I don't think some people truly understand how powerful our military is. Our military technology is so far ahead of China that it isn't even worth discussing. Our military is the top military in the world by far, and that should make every American feel very safe.

I think some people might not think our military is the super power it is, because of how Iraq has gone. Our military did it's job at the start of the war, but now it has become a political war and that is not a reflection of how dominant our military is. Our military is not a police force as that is not what they are trained to do. Our military is trained to attack with extreme force and precision to achieve our goals.

With all this being said I don't think we will go to war with China. As an earlier poster wrote our countries are to dependent on each other. I agree that at the worst it will be like the cold war with the Soviet Union.

Cyclone711 · 05-13-2008, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Cystate22

We would not have a ground war, as we could contain them enough just using airpower and our navy to blockade their coasts. I don't think some people truly understand how powerful our military is. Our military technology is so far ahead of China that it isn't even worth discussing. Our military is the top military in the world by far, and that should make every American feel very safe.

I think some people might not think our military is the super power it is, because of how Iraq has gone. Our military did it's job at the start of the war, but now it has become a political war and that is not a reflection of how dominant our military is. Our military is not a police force as that is not what they are trained to do. Our military is trained to attack with extreme force and precision to achieve our goals.

With all this being said I don't think we will go to war with China. As an earlier poster wrote our countries are to dependent on each other. I agree that at the worst it will be like the cold war with the Soviet Union.

Isn't that what people thought about Vietnam?

chengyushen · 05-13-2008, 04:35 PM

Yes, US military now is better than China, but is that the reason why you guys thinking of bombing china?

In China, no one wants to wage a war with US. The cities are westernized and young people tell you they admire US and view it as a model of democricy.

Here in US, you guys thinking of bombing China for what reasons? The only reason in you guys mind I see is that China develops its economy faster than you would like. Is that a crime and deservs bombing? Is this how the "free world" define crime?

Contamined food and lead toys are indivial behavial, has nothing to do with government. These are the chinese people you call "capitalist" who wanted to sell products with the cheapest cost. So quality suffer. Your Walmart is part of the reason.

10 years ago US economy is light years ahead of China. Looks what happen today? Now US military is light years ahead of China. Think what will happen in another 10 years?

If the US wants to keep the lead ahead of China, it is possible, but the only way of making it possibly is go back to hard working, stop thinking about going home at 3 pm every day, and stop day dreaming of bombing china.

Originally Posted by Cystate22

We would not have a ground war, as we could contain them enough just using airpower and our navy to blockade their coasts. I don't think some people truly understand how powerful our military is. Our military technology is so far ahead of China that it isn't even worth discussing. Our military is the top military in the world by far, and that should make every American feel very safe.

I think some people might not think our military is the super power it is, because of how Iraq has gone. Our military did it's job at the start of the war, but now it has become a political war and that is not a reflection of how dominant our military is. Our military is not a police force as that is not what they are trained to do. Our military is trained to attack with extreme force and precision to achieve our goals.

With all this being said I don't think we will go to war with China. As an earlier poster wrote our countries are to dependent on each other. I agree that at the worst it will be like the cold war with the Soviet Union.

snowcraig2.0 · 05-13-2008, 04:45 PM

I for one am completely against the bombing of China. I love crab wontons!

CloneAggie · 05-13-2008, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by chengyushen

Yes, US military now is better than China, but is that the reason why you guys thinking of bombing china?

In China, no one wants to wage a war with US. The cities are westernized and young people tell you they admire US and view it as a model of democricy.

Here in US, you guys thinking of bombing China for what reasons? The only reason in you guys mind I see is that China develops its economy faster than you would like. Is that a crime and deservs bombing? Is this how the "free world" define crime?

Contamined food and lead toys are indivial behavial, has nothing to do with government. These are the chinese people you call "capitalist" who wanted to sell products with the cheapest cost. So quality suffer. Your Walmart is part of the reason.

10 years ago US economy is light years ahead of China. Looks what happen today? Now US military is light years ahead of China. Think what will happen in another 10 years?

If the US wants to keep the lead ahead of China, it is possible, but the only way of making it possibly is go back to hard working, stop thinking about going home at 3 pm every day, and stop day dreaming of bombing china.

Nobody is thinking about bombing China.

jbhtexas · 05-13-2008, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by chengyushen

The only reason in you guys mind I see is that China develops its economy faster than you would like. Is that a crime and deservs bombing? Is this how the "free world" define crime?

No, the free world tends to define "crime" like this:

Originally Posted by Phaedrus

The Chinese gov't still executes political prisoners.

The Chinese gov't often bases non-political AND political executions based on how much they can get for someone's organs.

The Chinese gov't STILL suppresses free speech, political parties, and ESPECIALLY religion.

and like this:

Originally Posted by Kyle

But, they do still seem to believe in maintaining their hold on power through a suppression of information and civil liberties.
Civil liberties in the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Golden Shield Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ABC News: Chinese Civil Rights Activist Sentenced
Amnesty International targets China cooperation - CNET News.com

Care to explain why this happens regularly in China? And don't deny that it doesn't happen...

Cyclonepride · 05-13-2008, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Cystate22

I don't think some people truly understand how powerful our military is.

I agree. In terms of sheer firepower, we are as strong as the next several combined. When you take into account force multipliers in the form of our implemented technologies, the difference is way more impressive.

chengyushen · 05-13-2008, 06:54 PM

Yes, It may still be happening, but much much less than it was during the culture revolution. Plotical prisoner, maybe. Political execution? no. And it now happens to an extent that seldom affacts ordinary people's life.

I know you think you are speaking on behalf of chinese people requesting "western civilization". But before you do it, make sure you visit china at least once, or at least make 5 chinese friends, and see if the ordinary chinese people will treat you as their "representative from free world" or "liberator" if there is a military conflict between US and China.

As I have said again and again, now one in China treat US as an enemy today unless you want to make it your enemy. China has no single solider on other country's soil, including Iraq.

Originally Posted by jbhtexas

No, the free world tends to define "crime" like this:

and like this:

Care to explain why this happens regularly in China? And don't deny that it doesn't happen...

usnclone · 05-13-2008, 06:58 PM

At the turn of the century the US military was by far more superior to that of People's Republic of China. They, for the most part, were broke and couldn't feed their soldiers. Technologies were a generation or two behind the curve of the U.S. and little to speak of a legitimate Navy. They actually turned their first aircraft carrier in to a recreation center. In the last decade they have made substantial strides in to improving there "short comings". They defiantly have worked their way towards maintaining a legitimate and stable military. Speaking of defense spending between the two, it can be seen different ways. The U.S.'s spending is well documented ,but the PRC is a wide estimate. The PRC doesn't include such things as: nuclear weapons development, research, militia, pensions and some other things. The Defense spending between the two may actually be closer than the estimates show.

Kyle · 05-13-2008, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by chengyushen

China has no single solider on other country's soil, including Iraq.

The people of Tibet might beg to differ.
Invasion and illegal annexation of Tibet: 1949-1951
Tibet - Give Us Liberty,dalai lama,china occupation and genocide
Opinion: Tibet -- China's Gaza Strip - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

I'm certainly not advocating for any kind of military first strike against China, and I don't think most on here are. Anyone who is is foolish. I also don't anticipate any military confrontation between the U.S. and China.

But, there are many aspects of the government of China that are very objectionable. I'll preemptively admit that the U.S. government is far from perfect as well. But, that doesn't excuse the flaws of the Chinese government.

Phaedrus · 05-14-2008, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Kyle

The people of Tibet might beg to differ.
Invasion and illegal annexation of Tibet: 1949-1951
Tibet - Give Us Liberty,dalai lama,china occupation and genocide
Opinion: Tibet -- China's Gaza Strip - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

I'm certainly not advocating for any kind of military first strike against China, and I don't think most on here are. Anyone who is is foolish. I also don't anticipate any military confrontation between the U.S. and China.

But, there are many aspects of the government of China that are very objectionable. I'll preemptively admit that the U.S. government is far from perfect as well. But, that doesn't excuse the flaws of the Chinese government.

But, Kyle, that's not "really" Tibet. That's the "part of China corrupt, fascist Chinese Oligarchs made up when China crushed them."

And I am gratified that China doesn't execute political prisoners any more. After all, the few million they've executed in the recent past feel much better about that. So...Tibetan protesters aren't political, or are they not prisoners? I guess if you shoot them in the head prior to arresting them, you are legally not shooting political prisoners.

Pro-China spin = Not buying it.

CTAClone · 05-14-2008, 12:47 AM

I think this discussion is talking about two different things.

On one hand you have China the government and on the other hand you have China the people.

Chengyushen seems to be primarily talking about the people and how they are hard working and making strides to be more Western like and how they feel about the U.S.

A lot of others are talking about the government of China and the crimes they have committed.

I don't think either side is wrong, but Chenyushen did say that the Chinese people have a lot of pride in their country and I think it shows in his posts and I welcome his insight into another culture a lot of us may know very little about.

chinapuck · 05-14-2008, 12:53 AM

This is a very interesting article on how the earthquake in China is showing in a change in their attitude towards the press:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/wo...ld&oref=slogin

“This is the first time the Chinese media has lived up to international standards,” he said, adding, “I think the government is learning some lessons from the past.”

I think China is slowly coming around. You need to remember that this country was very closed off to the world until the late 80s early 90s. They have come a long way. The country still has some major issues but so does the States.

It's definitely been an eye opener since I moved to Shanghai 3 years ago...good and bad.

chinapuck · 05-14-2008, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by CTAClone

I think this discussion is talking about two different things.

On one hand you have China the government and on the other hand you have China the people.

Chengyushen seems to be primarily talking about the people and how they are hard working and making strides to be more Western like and how they feel about the U.S.

A lot of others are talking about the government of China and the crimes they have committed.

I don't think either side is wrong, but Chenyushen did say that the Chinese people have a lot of pride in their country and I think it shows in his posts and I welcome his insight into another culture a lot of us may know very little about.

Nice work. I agree with what you have said.