Why gas prices are not bearly high enough

[SouthernHawk]

Originally Posted by ajk4st8

People think that their 'fast' driving will save them tons of minutes. Do the math people. Driving 70 for 20 miles vs 85 for 20 miles. Its only a few minutes difference.

Yes I love slowing down in front of people who are driving like badasses.

Actually, the most fun I have had on the interstate was going 70 while passing a semi, and this big SUV comes up behind me flashing his lights and honking his horn (from Illinois, go figure). Of course, I decided to slow down to the speed of the semi for about 5 minutes, until he was good and mad. He finally passed me, and I just smiled at him and waved.

People like that are so entertaining.

[ISUclones33]

Put a 7 dollar tax on the gas and watch the markets crash. Watch people go insane. Oil companys are making more profit than ever. They are the ones that need a dose of reality.

[candg4ever]

One of my big gripes is all these people driving huge SUVs and pickups. I realize that pickups are used a lot for work, but all too often all they are is a status symbol or toy. Everyday I see literally hundreds of giant SUVs speeding down the interstate with nothing but the driver in them, no passengers whatsoever.

Everybody has the right to drive what they want, but maybe if we rationed out the gas to make it much more expensive to waste, people might think twice about cruisin' in mini-tanks. Come up with a formula to calculate how much gas people actually need to use for commuting to work, getting kids to day-care, shopping, etc. plus a little extra for unforseeable occurences, then triple or quadruple the price of dear ol' petrol usage after that. Take the extra money and put it towards road repairs and r & d of alternative fuel and power sources. Truckers and delivery drivers and others who make their living otr would obviously be exempt. Let the people who want to and can afford to use small school buses for their everyday driving and errand-running help foot the bill for the gas prices they're largely responsible for driving up.

I know this will be a sore subject with some, but sooner or later, we all have to start making some sacrifices to help put a stop to the steamroller.

[dmclone]

Originally Posted by candg4ever

One of my big gripes is all these people driving huge SUVs and pickups. I realize that pickups are used a lot for work, but all too often all they are is a status symbol or toy. Everyday I see literally hundreds of giant SUVs speeding down the interstate with nothing but the driver in them, no passengers whatsoever.

Everybody has the right to drive what they want, but maybe if we rationed out the gas to make it much more expensive to waste, people might think twice about cruisin' in mini-tanks. Come up with a formula to calculate how much gas people actually need to use for commuting to work, getting kids to day-care, shopping, etc. plus a little extra for unforseeable occurences, then triple or quadruple the price of dear ol' petrol usage after that. Take the extra money and put it towards road repairs and r & d of alternative fuel and power sources. Truckers and delivery drivers and others who make their living otr would obviously be exempt. Let the people who want to and can afford to use small school buses for their everyday driving and errand-running help foot the bill for the gas prices they're largely responsible for driving up.

I know this will be a sore subject with some, but sooner or later, we all have to start making some sacrifices to help put a stop to the steamroller.

I have no problem with the people driving big SUV's. I just always think to myself "it would suck to fill up that tank" or "must have short man syndrome". They pay the price at the pump and when they go to try and resale their once $50K SUV that is worth $20K a few years later.

Nearly everyone is responsible for these gas prices not just SUV drivers.

How far do you live away from work? Could you have chosen somewhere closer?

How many times a week do you go to the grocery store? Could you just go twice a month?

These are just a couple of examples. We as Americans are very wasteful (myself included).

[Wesley]

If the price went to $10/gallon , you would see millions people laid off from less tramsportation, less buying, less activity. I' m not sure the govt could afford to support the layoffs for several months. Unfortunately our 5% unemployment is based on cheap energy. A sudden change could result in lot more people willing to work for less.

[CycloneErik]

Originally Posted by SouthernHawk

Tax gas more? Are you crazy man? No way. They don't do what they're supposed to with that money anyway, so why should we artificially increase prices even more?

But it's for the children, right? Right?

[jumbopackage]

Originally Posted by Wesley

If the price went to $10/gallon , you would see millions people laid off from less tramsportation, less buying, less activity. I' m not sure the govt could afford to support the layoffs for several months. Unfortunately our 5% unemployment is based on cheap energy. A sudden change could result in lot more people willing to work for less.

No, you'd likely see society adapt to a more efficient, locally-based model. You'd see the suburbs shrivel up and die, or find a way to efficiently get people back and forth. You'd see mega stores die off, and smaller, closer, more local stores crop up. You'd see more efficient cars and better public transit. You'd see a lot more internet shopping. In short, you'd see a much more efficient economy, and probably a much better standard of living for a lot of people, since so much of their lives would be wrapped up in the areas where they live, work, shop and play, there would be a vested interest in keeping those areas livable. There might be a sharp jolt initially, but there's no reason it has to be the end of the world. Europe lives quite happily on much much higher gas prices than we do. In fact, much of the rest of the "first world" lives quite happily on the equivalent of 10 dollar a gallon gas.

And there are lifestyle choices that enable much of that already.

I go through less than 20 gallons of gas a month. I have no car payments. If I adjusted my life a little bit, I could burn maybe 5-10 gallons a month. That's easily affordable at 10 dollars a gallon. I chose to live close to work. I chose to not buy a new car every 2 or 3 years. I chose to buy a car that made sense instead of one that was more than I needed. People choose to live in the suburbs. People choose to buy new cars constantly. People choose to buy more vehicle than they need. Those are all choices, and are all things that can be changed if there is a reason to do so. I'm not saying any of them are bad choices, but they come with consequences.

Originally Posted by ISUclones33

Put a 7 dollar tax on the gas and watch the markets crash. Watch people go insane. Oil companys are making more profit than ever. They are the ones that need a dose of reality.

Oil companies are making record profits because demand is staying constant, and prices are high. This means their margins, which have stayed the same, earn them more dollars. Those dollars go into finding more oil reserves, and extracting oil that would not be otherwise economically viable at lower oil prices. They aren't "gouging" consumers, they are merely benefiting from high oil prices, just as the government is. While oil companies are making "record profits", the government is taking in "record tax revenues". They tend to conveniently ignore that part of the equation, though.

Even if they cut their margins to 0, it wouldn't make a significant difference in the price of a gallon of gas. They make about 8-10 cents profit for every dollar of goods sold, so if they cut their margins to 0, it would change the price of a gallon of gas by roughly a quarter. At 4 dollars a gallon, that's not a significant difference, and it doesn't address the root of the problem - the price of oil is simply going up. That's what makes the price of gas go up. WHY the price of oil it is going up is a whole different story, but it basically boils down to supply and demand, for the most part.

At any rate, oil companies making money is a GOOD thing. It helps their stock, and their sector, and that helps the stock market, which helps pretty much everyone. Compared to other industries, they don't make that much in terms of profit. They also have crazy high overhead that needs to be maintained in order to deliver their goods.

It's not a simple, oil companies are gouging consumers issue, it's a worldwide demand is causing Americans to rethink their assumptions issue. And since that sort of change is difficult to swallow, they are looking for someone - anyone - to blame.

Also, driving 45 on the interstate should be illegal. It's MUCH more dangerous than driving 25 over the speed limit.

[jdoggivjc]

Originally Posted by Cyclone42

Impatience totally permeates our culture. Whatever it is, we want it NOW, RIGHT NOW!!! That is the whole reason why we ship so much by truck, when we used to ship most stuff by rail. Shipping by railroad is just too slow in our RIGHT NOW culture.

Maybe, if gas prices were something like $10 or $12 a gallon, people would SLOW THE FRACK DOWN. I make it a point to always drive 45 miles-per-our on the interstate, and I am always getting honked at. I don't care. If people honk at me, I just slow down even more.

Just today, I was on a side street about to make a turn on a green light, and I stopped so this lady with a baby stroller and a roughly 5-yo kid could cross the street. And, guess what, I got honked at! The guy behind me was so impatient in getting wherever it is he needed to be RIGHT NOW that I guess he wanted me to commit triple homicide so he could be there 20 seconds sooner.

We desperately need to MASSIVELY raise taxes on gasoline in in this country. The prices are NOWHERE NEAR high enough, IMO. Maybe sock a $7 per-gallon tax on the prices as they are right now, and people would then TAKE IT EASY and SLOW DOWN. Armageddon isn't going to happen if it takes you an extra few minutes to get wherever you are going. And maybe the same idea will permeate our lives, and we'll actually be happier people as a result.

Anyway, that is my rant.

This has to be absolutely one of the biggest myths out there, that going slower saves you so much more gasoline. I call B.S. The last two vehicles I have owned I have had my best fuel mileage at or above 70 mph. It's because it really has absolutely nothing to do with speed, but how many RPMs your car is doing at that particular time. GM V6 vehicles seem to be most fuel efficient at about 2400 RPMs. So the bottom line is, what's the difference if you're turning 2400 RPMs in 3rd gear or 4th gear? Not much, other than you're going a lot faster in 4th gear than you are in 3rd gear. I go 73 MPH in my Pontiac Grand Prix with the V6 Supercharged engine. I average around 27 MPG when I go that speed. Funny - on fuel economy tests for the Grand Prix (which are done at 55 mph), it was only able to turn 26...

[LindenCy]

I would like to see less people driving and I would like to see local neighborhoods get stronger, but I don't want to see gas go up threefold. I really don't have a lot of sympathy for those with SUVs who are paying $100+ to fill up a tank. When I lived in Texas a ton of people had SUVs and I am guessing about 10% or less actually needed them. People can drive what they like, but don't complain because if you want the room and the status, you have to pay for the gas.

[Phaedrus]

Rail transportation was effectively killed in the mid-70s when subsidies were shifted from rail to trucking, via shifts in the way taxes were collected.

That was intentionally designed to provide a "jobs program" for truck drivers. It takes a lot more people to drive truck than it takes to drive train.

Converting the US to Europe is a lot tougher than you might think. And will require a ton of tax dollars to subsidize rail. It costs me $42 for a family ticket to travel the equivalent from Newton to Des Moines, and the gov't, who operates the train, is losing about $40 more in the process.

In addition to 45 mph being dangerous on the interstate, giving "right of way" to a pedestrian who is crossing against the light is even more dangerous. The guy coming the other direction might not, and then the OP would be responsible for the woman and her baby being killed by the legal driver. One of my pet peeves is Iowa drivers who do not understand basic "right of way" rules, and in trying to be "nice", break the law and cause dangerous driving situations.

Iowa drivers, if you HAVE right of way, TAKE right of way. It's not flippin' rocket science.

And keep the heck out of the left lane, unless you can pass in a couple seconds, you passive-aggressive jerks!

[Iastfan112]

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

This has to be absolutely one of the biggest myths out there, that going slower saves you so much more gasoline. I call B.S. The last two vehicles I have owned I have had my best fuel mileage at or above 70 mph. It's because it really has absolutely nothing to do with speed, but how many RPMs your car is doing at that particular time. GM V6 vehicles seem to be most fuel efficient at about 2400 RPMs. So the bottom line is, what's the difference if you're turning 2400 RPMs in 3rd gear or 4th gear? Not much, other than you're going a lot faster in 4th gear than you are in 3rd gear. I go 73 MPH in my Pontiac Grand Prix with the V6 Supercharged engine. I average around 27 MPG when I go that speed. Funny - on fuel economy tests for the Grand Prix (which are done at 55 mph), it was only able to turn 26...

I'm not saying your wrong in your case but the difference of 20 mph is wind resistance. Physically your car may be humming best at 75 but if in a fair amount of cases the wind resistance counteracts this causing the need for a lower speed for best gas mileage. Its a case by case basis though where the threshold is reached. Actually one of the bigger culprits for gas guzzling is hard accelerations and hard breaking(also tough on the breaks). The car I initially test it on received best mpg at 57.1 mph over the length of my testing. I my hypothesis in the begining was that it would be a bit higher but my bet is that I was off with rolling friction as well as energy lost in gear transmission.

Physics- the only math class I ever enjoyed.

[jdoggivjc]

Originally Posted by Iastfan112

I'm not saying your wrong in your case but the difference of 20 mph is wind resistance. Physically your car may be humming best at 75 but if in a fair amount of cases the wind resistance counteracts this causing the need for a lower speed for best gas mileage. Its a case by case basis though where the threshold is reached. Actually one of the bigger culprits for gas guzzling is hard accelerations and hard breaking(also tough on the breaks). The car I initially test it on received best mpg at 57.1 mph over the length of my testing. I my hypothesis in the begining was that it would be a bit higher but my bet is that I was off with rolling friction as well as energy lost in gear transmission.

Physics- the only math class I ever enjoyed.

Yeah, but there's also something else that's not considered - the amount of distance you cover versus the amount of gas you burn. It's why for me 73 mpg is more efficient than 72 mpg is more efficient than 55 mpg, but isn't necessarily more efficient than 75 mpg. It's a law of diminishing returns thing - how many miles can you get out of that gallon before that gallon is gone? There's definitely a case to be made that if your car goes 55 mph at 2400 RPM in 3rd gear and 73 mpg at 2400 RPM in 4th gear, then you'll travel further at 73 mpg while your car is getting the same kind of efficiency.

[Psyclone]

Originally Posted by Cydkar

If he drives 45 at night it could be deadly. It's hard to see how slow somebody is going ahead of you until it's to late.

I'm in a hurry...to not die.

Speed variance is one of the factors that is looked at when doing speed studies. The smaller the variance the fewer speed-related accidents.

[Psyclone]

Originally Posted by Iastfan112

Actually one of the bigger culprits for gas guzzling is hard accelerations and hard breaking(also tough on the breaks).

Breaking is a pure waste of all that momentum that you have built up. And it's all going up in heat. I think I'll have my mechanic remove that pedal and make my care more efficient.

[EggMcClone]

I've always thought it would make a lot of sense to set up high speed trains between all of the major cities like they have in Europe. Yeah, you'd have to subsidize it but there are a lot of hidden subsidies for air and car travel that could offset some of the costs.

The current model of our cities and suburbs really isn't sustainable for the future without changes like more public transportation.