Money grab or Legit case

cytech · 05-17-2008, 07:56 PM

Ex-employee sues Rockwell, claims religious discrimination | GazetteOnline.com - Cedar Rapids, Iowa City

So according to this article. Rockwell wanted Mr. Meeker to take part in diversity training, and sign something saying he would respect his co workers no matter their race, sexual preference, etc.

But Mr. Meeker is a devout Christian and believes that homosexuality is a sin. And refused to take part in training or sign the document.

In turn he was fired for not abiding by company policies.

I can respect Mr. Meeker for standing up for his beliefs, but isn't he just saying they discriminated against him for not allowing him to discriminate against coworkers who were homosexual?

I am not sure what all the Civil Rights laws state, but I am pretty sure that Rockwell is required to provide a workplace that is free of discrimination against anything pretty much.

So what it comes to is that. Mr. Meeker decided he didn't want to work at Rockwell anymore. He held his beliefs is such high regard that he couldn't put them on a back burner from 9-5.

So I think this is purely a money grab.

LindenCy · 05-17-2008, 07:59 PM

The problem I have is that it wasn't an issue of religion. Even if you disagree with someone's lifestyle, you have no excuse for not being civil, which I believe is all the document was asking for.

cytech · 05-17-2008, 08:04 PM

yeah there is no reason he can't act courteous and with respect to people.

There are several people I don't care for that I have to deal with on a regular basis. But I don't act like a *** just because I don't like them. I toughen up and be nice just to make the meeting or business transaction go smoothly.

Phaedrus · 05-18-2008, 08:55 AM

The problem I have with "diversity training" is that it is completely and utterly redundant, and a CYA move by highers-up.

And in the end, this guy is absolutely correct. If you, as a worker, are forced to tolerate everyone, then everyone else should be forced to tolerate an individual's right to be a bigot. Or a racist. Or a sexist jerk.

How about, "The workplace is a place to work. If you bring your religion, or your sexual preference, or your "race" to work, you're fired." It's a matter of shading, but at least it's a bit more consistent.

Phaedrus · 05-18-2008, 09:01 AM

In addition, I don't believe the individual in the article was necessarily "disrespectful" towards others. "Disrespectful" is, in my experience, a code word that is used to paint others who refuse to "toe the line", because it is so difficult to disprove.

As I think homosexuality is a biological and possibly a psychological error, I can't agree to "value" it, either. Is it necessary to "value" birth defects, as well? That doesn't necessarily mean I don't respect those who are afflicted with gender confusion. Or birth defects, for that matter.

And, frankly, the swearing of oaths and signing of documents at work, especially when it has nothing to do with the work itself, kind of scares me.

CycloneErik · 05-18-2008, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by cytech

Ex-employee sues Rockwell, claims religious discrimination | GazetteOnline.com - Cedar Rapids, Iowa City

So according to this article. Rockwell wanted Mr. Meeker to take part in diversity training, and sign something saying he would respect his co workers no matter their race, sexual preference, etc.

But Mr. Meeker is a devout Christian and believes that homosexuality is a sin. And refused to take part in training or sign the document.

In turn he was fired for not abiding by company policies.

I can respect Mr. Meeker for standing up for his beliefs, but isn't he just saying they discriminated against him for not allowing him to discriminate against coworkers who were homosexual?

I am not sure what all the Civil Rights laws state, but I am pretty sure that Rockwell is required to provide a workplace that is free of discrimination against anything pretty much.

So what it comes to is that. Mr. Meeker decided he didn't want to work at Rockwell anymore. He held his beliefs is such high regard that he couldn't put them on a back burner from 9-5.

So I think this is purely a money grab.

I guess I'm not clear in how his belief in the sinfulness of homosexuality is discrimination on his part. I'm with him. I can work with almost anybody in a workplace environment, and I'll likely hold off the discussion until they bring it up.

At some point, we'll talk about what we do outside of work, because we're people. They'll know from my background what I believe.

Can we work together at work? Sure.
Would we be real compatible in beliefs? No.
If they were to ask me, do you believe that God loves them? Oh, yes, He does, because their sin is on an equal level to Him as mine is, and Jesus died for both (let's just say all

)

Would it help to know what respect means in this document? I don't want to bring on a Bill Clinton "is" moment here, but people do import their own meanings to words like respect, so that would help me in understanding the company's position.

ketchupnmustard · 05-18-2008, 09:37 AM

I believe this to be a money grab. This guy is not a victim. He is a volunteer. He volunteered to be a maverick for Jesus. So be it. Rockwell Collins had every right to show this guy to the door. It's not like he was working in the Blue Oyster Bar. This guy is more than welcome to go find employment elsewhere.

ffelknirznarf · 05-18-2008, 09:57 AM

I had diversity training at IBM about 10 years ago. There were about 40 people in the class and they all were white. The manager started by saying he did not see any reason why we had diversity training. He said "We have old guys, young guys, fat guys, thin guys, bald guys, guys with hair, and even 1 female."

Cyclonepride · 05-18-2008, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Phaedrus

The problem I have with "diversity training" is that it is completely and utterly redundant, and a CYA move by highers-up.

And in the end, this guy is absolutely correct. If you, as a worker, are forced to tolerate everyone, then everyone else should be forced to tolerate an individual's right to be a bigot. Or a racist. Or a sexist jerk.

How about, "The workplace is a place to work. If you bring your religion, or your sexual preference, or your "race" to work, you're fired." It's a matter of shading, but at least it's a bit more consistent.

I think you are dead on there. If you are forced to accept them, they should be forced to accept you.

wolverine68 · 05-18-2008, 11:48 AM

First of all, the only think that youcan compare homosexuality to is hetersuxuality, not a birth defect. Second, the point is that everyone must be respectful of everyone else. If there was a homosexual at his workplace, they would have to show the same repect to someone that believes homosexuality is a sin that they would show to anyone else. How would he feel if his superior was gay and he was denied promotions because of his beliefs? I believe that is the issue here.
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I beleive that a persons sexual preference is protected by law in the state of Iowa.

LindenCy · 05-18-2008, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Phaedrus

And, frankly, the swearing of oaths and signing of documents at work, especially when it has nothing to do with the work itself, kind of scares me.

This, I think, is key. Shouldn't it be expected that we act properly at work? I don't want to be signing any documents like this either. Big brother is basically trying to cover its butt over stupid lawsuits that don't belong in the workplace anyway. As far as disrespect, I just meant that you would treat them with courtesy as anyone else. I expect the same from him/her.

I really want to get into this more, but don't want to start the homosexuality debate (and gay marriage debate) up. I hear enough about it.

Kyle · 05-18-2008, 01:12 PM

I think it will depend on exactly what they were asking him to do. I don't think we really know in that regard, as all we have are his accusations and a "no comment" from Rockwell.

Clearly an employer can require that its employees agree to treat each other with respect. Making them affirm relatively controversial beliefs with religious implications though would be going too far.

Ficklone02 · 05-18-2008, 01:22 PM

I agree, we can't really determine what we're discussing without knowing what RC is asking there employees to do. For me, they would have to be blatantly asking for confirmation of my acceptance of other beliefs for me to object.....its just a CYA, and I think you have to choose your battles..to me this wouldn't be one of them. I can't believe they held an actual training on this though, what is there to talk about? Just read the company policy and sign on the dotted line if you agree.

Clonehomer · 05-18-2008, 03:19 PM

What was Rockwell supposed to do? "You won't sign that form saying you will abide by company policy, oh well I guess that's okay". Are you serious? If someone won't sign the confidentiality agreement because they believe the public should know everything that's going on the military, should they be fired?

CycloneErik · 05-18-2008, 03:23 PM

I think Rockwell would be in a spot here. The document may seem controversial to an employee. At the same time, they do have to enforce their policy once they announce it, or things get a little crazy.

Where I work, half of our policies are announced with the words, "Guys, we all know this won't last more than a couple of weeks," because they don't. It doesn't breed a real ground of respect for new policies

At the same time, he does have a 1st Amendment right to disagree with this man's behavior/lifestyle. Making sure when/how to talk about it would be pretty important here ("As much as is within you, be at peace with all men.").

I don't know all the details here, but it is interesting.