Baseball rules/situation question

aeroclone08 · 06-12-2008, 01:20 AM

I know we have a few baseball umps on the board, here's a question for you guys and anybody else who wants to weigh in.

A batter checks his swing on a drop third strike. He goes to 1st and beats out the throw, but the home plate ump says its a ball, come back to the plate and finish the at bat. The defense appeals to the 1st base ump, who says it was a swing. They then throw the ball to "appeal" to first since the batter's no longer there, he's at home since he was called back. The batter is now called out. What should be the ruling here?

Unfortunately this is second hand since I was out of town, but this comes from my brother's high-school baseball game.

CyGuy33 · 06-12-2008, 01:23 AM

Wow, what a cluster.

CycloneWanderer · 06-12-2008, 01:25 AM

general logic of fairness would say he would have to be safe.

CycloneWanderer · 06-12-2008, 01:28 AM

actually, on further thought, this shouldn't happen because the first base umpire should have shot down the appeal and went with his decision that it was a ball while the home plate ump should concede to the "ball" call by the first base umpire and shoot down the appeal as well.

CyGuy33 · 06-12-2008, 01:29 AM

There should be no way the kid is out. Either he's at bat with it being a ball or he's on 1st.

theshadow · 06-12-2008, 01:33 AM

The defense can't appeal. They can ask the home plate umpire to ask for help, but it's the plate umpire's decision. The base umpire makes no call unless asked directly by the plate umpire.

If the plate umpire is certain there was no swing and the pitch was a ball, then he doesn't have to ask.

The best option is to let the play finish, then the two umpires discuss what they've "got." Given the situation you described, the batter is either back at the plate with a ball, or is safe at 1st. He cannot be out.

bellzisu · 06-12-2008, 01:41 AM

I know any tuff decisions like that, I like to meet with the rest of the crew and talk it out. Usually, when its something dealing with home plate we let the homeplate umpires decision be the final decision.

cybsball20 · 06-12-2008, 01:58 AM

It's a dead ball as soon as they make him go back, so it should be too late for an appeal as no appeal can be made if time is called. If they appeal and say he went, he is safe at first IMO.

mwitt · 06-12-2008, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by cybsball20

It's a dead ball as soon as they make him go back, so it should be too late for an appeal as no appeal can be made if time is called. If they appeal and say he went, he is safe at first IMO.

That isn't accurate. It happened in the White Sox game just a few days ago.

Cardinal&Gold11 · 06-12-2008, 02:41 AM

This is pretty funny. I was playing in this game on Tuesday and this was the craziest thing I have ever seen while playing or watching a game. I got a kick out of watching the coach get thrown out of the game though.

MidwestZest · 06-12-2008, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by theshadow

The defense can't appeal. They can ask the home plate umpire to ask for help, but it's the plate umpire's decision. The base umpire makes no call unless asked directly by the plate umpire.

If the plate umpire is certain there was no swing and the pitch was a ball, then he doesn't have to ask.

The best option is to let the play finish, then the two umpires discuss what they've "got." Given the situation you described, the batter is either back at the plate with a ball, or is safe at 1st. He cannot be out.

ding ding ding ding! The home ump is under no obligation, whatsoever, to ask a base ump about a swing. ever. SO, if there WAS question about the swing, he would ask the base ump while the batter was on first base. Calling the batter back to the plate, and then asking the first base ump about the swing would either be really underhanded, or just a big ole unfortunate brain fart.

Originally Posted by cybsball20

It's a dead ball as soon as they make him go back, so it should be too late for an appeal as no appeal can be made if time is called. If they appeal and say he went, he is safe at first IMO.

Originally Posted by mwitt

That isn't accurate. It happened in the White Sox game just a few days ago.

and mwitt is correct on this one. An appeal can be made at anytime during the game, SO LONG AS the ball is "live" (ie, you are not in a time out), and no plays have been made in between the play in question and the appeal. So, time out can be called, and then once "time in" is signified by the pitcher stepping onto the rubber in a pitching stance, he can step off and appeal the previous play. Don't see it very often - but it did happen in a sox game last week as mwitt mentioned. runner didn't touch home plate, went to the dugout. ump never made any signal as to safe or out. Time was called, lengthy discussion. Time in, pitcher sets up, steps back off the mound, tosses the ball home. Catcher says "i'm appealing the previous call" and steps on home plate. Out. Just a little info for future reference :-)

JRCampy · 06-12-2008, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by MidwestZest

Don't see it very often - but it did happen in a sox game last week as mwitt mentioned. runner didn't touch home plate, went to the dugout. ump never made any signal as to safe or out. Time was called, lengthy discussion. Time in, pitcher sets up, steps back off the mound, tosses the ball home. Catcher says "i'm appealing the previous call" and steps on home plate. Out. Just a little info for future reference :-)

Actually I think the rules clearly state in that situation the runner and the catcher must participate in an impromptu dizzy-bat competition to see if home is awarded, I think that's why I was so upset on that play...

drmwevr08 · 06-12-2008, 08:43 AM

I think the infield fly rule would control here...

They probably need instant replay to help them out on a call like this...