Workout rant

[tigershoops31]

Suckers, trying to lose weight...

I'm trying to gain weight for football, and I am struggling. Goal is 185 by August from 152 in wrestling and I'm only at 175.

But my plan when my metabolism slows down is to just keep lifting and maybe slow down on the whole eating thing.

Man I was right there about 8-10 years ago. I was a scrawny 145-155 pound 6'3" guy in hs. Part of it was that I was in 4 sports and never had a chance to gain much. I ate the heck out of everything I could and continued into college...once I slowed down in college I gained some weight and got to about 170 or so.

Hopefully you don't have to go through what I did...when I had stopped working out much and my metabolism had slowed some I broke my ankle playing basketball and spent a few months on the couch just eating and drinking until I could do anything on it. By the time I was able to jog again I was up to 215 and it wasn't a good 215. Now I'm back down to about 195 or so and happy enough where I'm at as long as I'm lifting fairly regularly.

Point is, don't be too desperate to gain weight cause it'll come eventually regardless!

[Phaedrus]

Oh please. An effective and competent trainer is in fact one who "pushes" the trainee past their comfort zone. The only way a trainee "gets in shape" is to demand from their body a new level of exertion past that of what they have done before. "Feeling sore" a day after a workout is called "delayed muscle soreness" -and is natural and frequent for inexperienced lifters, and is still a desired goal for experienced ones. Being "sore" IS NOT THE SAME as "being injured."
Save your trainer, Cybone - he's making you work, and increasing your mental and physical pain tolerances. You'll thank him later.

Muscle soreness is actually a series of small muscle injuries around the major muscle group - Nearly every person I know who thinks muscle soreness is desirable falls into the "pot belly, working out by leaning on the weights" category.

Having said that, there is seldom a time when I don't have a twinge of soreness in my body; it comes with the territory of being middle-aged, frequently injured in the past, and being in a superior state of fitness.

But unusual muscle soreness (which the poster I was responding to described) is the result of bad training and a bad trainer.

I've been in exceptional shape two times in my life. Both times it was as the result of starting slow, and working up easy, with minimum soreness.

This "pushing" you speak of, nearly 100% of the time leads to short-term gains and long-term failure.

[Phaedrus]

300 unweighted calf raises doesnt sound like that much for a first workout. Calves are a small muscle and need extreme work and recover fast. I am guessing there may have been some slight muscle strain you tried to push through...

In my experience, only competitive bodybuilders need work on their shoulders, triceps and calves. The reason is, nearly every full body exercise out there OVERUSES the shoulders, triceps and calves.

People wanting to "get in shape" need to concentrate on full-body and major muscle group exercises. The minor groups will largely take care of themselves.

A "professional trainer" who has people trying to get "in shape" who has them do these "small muscle group" exercises is incompetent.

The problem is, people who use trainers tend to be ignorant of what "right" is, so cannot make a judgement of whether an exercise is "good" or "not good".

[Phaedrus]

My 1 encounter with a "professional trainer"... first I'm gym savvy having been a lifter/exerciser all my life. But my renewal included private training sessions. So the kid has me do 10 calf raises (unweighted) on each of the steps to the second floor --- maybe 25 steps. So in general doing calf raises is good, but doing nearly 300 caused major muscle stress that lasted over a week. Even though I knew better, that was NOT a way to push a client past their comfort zone. Borderline negligent but again - I knew better so take responsibility.

This idiot is the norm, not the exception, among the "trainers" I've met.

He has some exercises he likes, and so he pushes them on people, without thnking of "the big picture".

[Phaedrus]

Ok, I have a workout rant. 3 things that really tick me off.

1. Curls in the squat rack! If you have ever done it stop right now, I want to do things I need that rack for, and curling is not one.

2. Guys that load up 350lbs on the squat rack, do one set where they barely even bend their knees, and then toss it back up and then brag to everyone how they can squat 350. If your hams dont touch your heels, it aint a squat.

3. The same guys that load up 350, never ever ever take the plates off when they are done. Not one single time have I come into the gym has the bar in the squat rack been empty, not one single time!

Amen, brother! Reference #2, these guys also slide forward on their knees, and will, sooner or later, blow a knee out.

[cyclonedave25]

Muscle soreness is actually a series of small muscle injuries around the major muscle group - Nearly every person I know who thinks muscle soreness is desirable falls into the "pot belly, working out by leaning on the weights" category.

Having said that, there is seldom a time when I don't have a twinge of soreness in my body; it comes with the territory of being middle-aged, frequently injured in the past, and being in a superior state of fitness.

But unusual muscle soreness (which the poster I was responding to described) is the result of bad training and a bad trainer.

Delayed-onset muscle soreness is a very controversial topic. Physiologists and researchers still have no universal answer to the cause of it. However, there are some good theories explaining the rough cause, which is very, physiologically in depth. But, I actually love delayed muscle soreness, it makes me feel like I actually did something. And, I don't feel I am in the "pot belly" category.

[cyclonedave25]

In my experience, only competitive bodybuilders need work on their shoulders, triceps and calves. The reason is, nearly every full body exercise out there OVERUSES the shoulders, triceps and calves.

People wanting to "get in shape" need to concentrate on full-body and major muscle group exercises. The minor groups will largely take care of themselves.

A "professional trainer" who has people trying to get "in shape" who has them do these "small muscle group" exercises is incompetent.

The problem is, people who use trainers tend to be ignorant of what "right" is, so cannot make a judgement of whether an exercise is "good" or "not good".

While I agree (mostly) with the first 2 paragraphs in your post, I disagree with the third paragraph. Being a trainer, I feel that working in some secondary lifts (triceps, biceps, calves, etc) are more important for breaking up the workout. Keeping new things coming for the client to do. They seem to enjoy some of those better anyways. It's important for the client to have fun and by varying the workout, you keep them on their feet. Plus, if you train them right, you won't be overusing those muscles, but rather helping them reach their strength training goals. FWIW, some secondary muscles (calves) are mainly slow twitch fibers, so it takes a lot of training to fatigue them and to cause damage by over training.

[Phaedrus]

While I agree (mostly) with the first 2 paragraphs in your post, I disagree with the third paragraph. Being a trainer, I feel that working in some secondary lifts (triceps, biceps, calves, etc) are more important for breaking up the workout. Keeping new things coming for the client to do. They seem to enjoy some of those better anyways. It's important for the client to have fun and by varying the workout, you keep them on their feet. Plus, if you train them right, you won't be overusing those muscles, but rather helping them reach their strength training goals. FWIW, some secondary muscles (calves) are mainly slow twitch fibers, so it takes a lot of training to fatigue them and to cause damage by over training.

With calves, 2 hours of bicycling leaves mine pretty well thrashed.

200 pushups kind of kill my shoulders and triceps, especially the narrow stance pushups.

Specifically, I'm addressing the morbidly obese and people who are really, really out of shape.

Honest question, as a trainer, how do you cope with the person who has unrealistic strength and conditioning training goals? If I had a dime for every morbidly obese person who came up to me at the gym or elsewhere, and asked how they can "tighten up the back of their arms" or "reduce their love handles" I'd be a rich man.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that "goal management" is as important as motivation or teaching technique.

In my opinion, there are two distinct subjects we are talking about, here. There is athletic training of already athletically inclined people (who can be in a wide range of "shape") and then there is fitness training (who tend to not be in shape, though YMMV).

I have met very few "trainers" who are good at both. And many who are good at neither.

I'm still of the opinion that the primary goal of anyone advising someone else on fitness is to find what causes them to self-motivate. For me, it was anger. I got really, really mad at being considered a washed-up, fat, middled-aged "hasbeen."

Plus, I decided that my wife needed a playmate with a hard body, and I wanted the guy involved to be me

[cyclonedave25]

With calves, 2 hours of bicycling leaves mine pretty well thrashed.

200 pushups kind of kill my shoulders and triceps, especially the narrow stance pushups.

Specifically, I'm addressing the morbidly obese and people who are really, really out of shape.

Honest question, as a trainer, how do you cope with the person who has unrealistic strength and conditioning training goals? If I had a dime for every morbidly obese person who came up to me at the gym or elsewhere, and asked how they can "tighten up the back of their arms" or "reduce their love handles" I'd be a rich man.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that "goal management" is as important as motivation or teaching technique.

In my opinion, there are two distinct subjects we are talking about, here. There is athletic training of already athletically inclined people (who can be in a wide range of "shape") and then there is fitness training (who tend to not be in shape, though YMMV).

I have met very few "trainers" who are good at both. And many who are good at neither.

I'm still of the opinion that the primary goal of anyone advising someone else on fitness is to find what causes them to self-motivate. For me, it was anger. I got really, really mad at being considered a washed-up, fat, middled-aged "hasbeen."

Plus, I decided that my wife needed a playmate with a hard body, and I wanted the guy involved to be me

Having trained both morbidly obese people and athletic people, the main thing I try to get across to the obese people is that its very important that they just get up and move. Putting them on a strenuous training regime doesn't do a lick of good. If they can walk for 10 straight minutes, it's good. When they come up with unrealistic goals, its my job to cut the goals down into sections. Making a lot of short term goals out of their "huge" long term goal. So, yes goal management is very important. You need to keep them striving to hit different goals, but not make the goals so hard so that they never get to them. And training athletic people is a completely different story. Lets just say, they are a lot easier. oh, and sorry for the long paragraph, my "enter" key doesn't work.

[Tornado man]

Muscle soreness is actually a series of small muscle injuries around the major muscle group - Nearly every person I know who thinks muscle soreness is desirable falls into the "pot belly, working out by leaning on the weights" category.

Having said that, there is seldom a time when I don't have a twinge of soreness in my body; it comes with the territory of being middle-aged, frequently injured in the past, and being in a superior state of fitness.

But unusual muscle soreness (which the poster I was responding to described) is the result of bad training and a bad trainer.

I've been in exceptional shape two times in my life. Both times it was as the result of starting slow, and working up easy, with minimum soreness.

This "pushing" you speak of, nearly 100% of the time leads to short-term gains and long-term failure.

No, what the poster described was very natural, especially for someone new to muscle resistance training.
Muscle soreness is the result of many "micro-tears" of individual muscle fibers resulting from the workout. A muscle gets stronger by rapidly repairing these micro-tears and the fibers subsequently growing in size, adjusting to the work load demanded of it. As an analogy, think of the callouses on your hands. It's the same principle.
Again, muscle soreness is not an "injury." It's sought-after, and necessary for growth.

[Phaedrus]

No, what the poster described was very natural, especially for someone new to muscle resistance training.
Muscle soreness is the result of many "micro-tears" of individual muscle fibers resulting from the workout. A muscle gets stronger by rapidly repairing these micro-tears and the fibers subsequently growing in size, adjusting to the work load demanded of it. As an analogy, think of the callouses on your hands. It's the same principle.
Again, muscle soreness is not an "injury." It's sought-after, and necessary for growth.

I'm familiar with the microtrauma theory. And disagree vehemently, with it. In my own experience, aerobic and anaerobic fitness is not mutually exclusive, either. In truth, noone knows why muscles hypertrophy.

The people I know that "need" a trainer tend to plateau a lot. And part of this is, imo, because they increase the intensity of their workouts too quickly. Of course the other part is that they haven't been properly motivated to do it themselves.

But, I say again, the kind of muscle soreness that is severe enough to limit function (which, as I reiterate, is what the OP was describing) is not microtrophy; it is injury.

And most certainly, the alleged benefits of microtrauma is completely irrelevant to someone who is morbidly obese attempting to get in shape. In fact, they can get better long-term effects from a "slow and steady" increase in exercise intensity, combined with an increase in exercise time.

BTW - On weightloss through diet: I think that for someone who has an unhealthy lifestyle, loss of muscle and weakness is a satisfactory tradeoff for losing 50 pounds or more of fat. You can always put muscle back on and build back strength. Improved nutrition, along with limited intake and lifestyle change makes that a "no-brainer" if you ask me. It's what I did, initially, and I would do it again, if I had to.

[Phaedrus]

Let me throw THIS out there.... Recent bloodwork showed I am off the charts LOW on testosterone. Lack of T can be bad for many reasons but weight gain and weight-loss resistance are some biggies. I'm a firm believer in hormone replacement and have been supplementing with a transdermal compounded testosterone cream for nearly a year. Has had positive impact on, among other things, seasonal depression, ADD, bloodpressure...

If you find yourself struggling with the common ailments of 40 year-old men you MIGHT consider seeing an endo or some other professional that SPECIALIZES in hormone replacement therapy.

Oh - and I hate the shower urinators although I've been guilty a few times...

This may sound a little unusual, but about the time I turned 40, I started lifting again, but not to the extent I work out now. What I did notice, was that my vocal range (I sing) dropped a couple notes, I started getting more aggressive, and I put on some muscle really quickly. Plus, my sexual desire increased.

I'm wondering what the effect resistance exercise has on T-deficient men? Perhaps studies have been done that show a correlation, but I don't recall having read any.

[Tornado man]

"Injuries" in this context would consist of muscle sprains and strains. That's not what Cybone was describing. What his trainer was doing was indoctrinating him in what a properly performed set consists of: exhausting both Type 1 and Type 2 muscle fibers. Everyone's fine when chugging along and working the Type 1 fibers. But as soon that those are exhausted and Type 2 comes into play, everyone's first urge is to stop. The voices in your head change from "this is easy," to "I want to stop now," and DOWN GO THE WEIGHTS. That's why lifters must "clean the slate" after exhausting the Type 1s, regroup mentally and set a new goal to exhaust the Type 2 fibers as they finish each set.
This trainer is no "idiot," as you cavalierly describe him. He's working on his client's willpower and work ethic. Most attendees to gyms don't have it, and their "quit switch" to end a set is flipped on at the first moment of stress. That's why 85-90% of gym members look the same year after year.

[JHudd]

This may sound a little unusual, but about the time I turned 40, I started lifting again, but not to the extent I work out now. What I did notice, was that my vocal range (I sing) dropped a couple notes, I started getting more aggressive, and I put on some muscle really quickly. Plus, my sexual desire increased.

I'm wondering what the effect resistance exercise has on T-deficient men? Perhaps studies have been done that show a correlation, but I don't recall having read any.

I knew I had seen you somewhere before.........(The fun starts at around the 1:00 mark)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<obje...mbed></object>

[SpokaneCY]

This may sound a little unusual, but about the time I turned 40, I started lifting again, but not to the extent I work out now. What I did notice, was that my vocal range (I sing) dropped a couple notes, I started getting more aggressive, and I put on some muscle really quickly. Plus, my sexual desire increased.

I'm wondering what the effect resistance exercise has on T-deficient men? Perhaps studies have been done that show a correlation, but I don't recall having read any.

Weight training WILL increase T production to a point and there's a diet component as well. Turns out I have secondary hypogonadism where my various levels of hormones are out of whack and I don't have the hormonal signals to produce as much T. My supplementation puts me in the upper third of the accepted range - nothing supraphysiologic like steroid freaks. Tinkering with hormones is a tough business though as once you tweak 1 thing - say T - then there are corresponding changes in others - all the various estrogens, DHT, FSH, GnRH and the whole host of others... Takes quite a while (I'm out about a year) to find the levels where your body reaches an equilibrium but its sure worth it depending on where you started.

For me, lack of interest in sex. Not lack of ability to perform, just lack of interest. Typical middle-age weight gain - all belly and right at the cut-off points to start being concerned with metabolic syndrome. I'm ADD and suffer from seasonal depression as well.

A year ago I really started looking for other answers than doctors prescribing pills to treat a symptom when I wanted to know WHY I had something - not just cover it up. I've always been more of a "w"holistic guy looking for root causes. I don't think I have all the answers for me, but I sure feel I'm way further down the road than I once was. Good health and fitness is a journey.