Ford Motor Company posts $8.7 Billion loss

**dmclone** · 07-25-2008, 09:22 AM

Good point. Most of plants that the Big 3 have can't change to produce other vehicles where most of the Japanese have plants that can switch production to to other vehicles.

**CYKOFAN** · 07-25-2008, 10:35 AM

In the mid-late 90's GM had a production line making electric cars, which were leased but owners wanted to buy them. GM recalled and destroyed those cars and converted the production line to making Hummers. Enough said.

**Phaedrus** · 07-25-2008, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by CYKOFAN

In the mid-late 90's GM had a production line making electric cars, which were leased but owners wanted to buy them. GM recalled and destroyed those cars and converted the production line to making Hummers. Enough said.

One could wish that would be your final word, but something tells me it's not....

**CYKOFAN** · 07-25-2008, 09:35 PM

Sorry, I'm just not one to swallow a lot of the right wing rant on this board. I just proved you right.

**jdoggivjc** · 07-25-2008, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by CYKOFAN

Sorry, I'm just not one to swallow a lot of the right wing rant on this board. I just proved you right.

Tell me - what exactly was the market for an electric car here in the United States back in 1999? 'nuff said.

Actually, not quite yet - I think it's hilarious that Toyota's scoffing that GM claims it has the Volt and that it will be successful. Looks like one of those highly beloved Japanese automakers is about to have pie on its face...

**dmclone** · 07-25-2008, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

Tell me - what exactly was the market for an electric car here in the United States back in 1999? 'nuff said.

Actually, not quite yet - I think it's hilarious that Toyota's scoffing that GM claims it has the Volt and that it will be successful. Looks like one of those highly beloved Japanese automakers is about to have pie on its face...

Yeah they are going to show Toyota. They'll probably sell at least 10,000 of those $40K electric cars while by the time it's out in 2010, Toyota will have sold a million priuses. I'm excited to see the Volt but I don't think everyone is going to go out and buy one the first week they're out.

BW-I don't believe in the whole conspiracy theory on why GM got rid of the electric car. Like you said, with cheap gas it didn't make sense.

**bellzisu** · 07-25-2008, 10:25 PM

My wife has a Ford... A wonderful Ford Escape. What a piece of junk. 115,000 miles and the thing can't wait to fall apart. Some extremely high dollar repairs are starting to show up. I would love to trade it off but with the miles I wouldn't get **** in a bucket for it.

Same problems surfaced when I had a Ford Explorer a few years back with the same miles. Just frustrating. My Chevy pickup has been the most reliable vehicle I have ever had between a couple Fords and a Jeep. Just cost too much to drive.

Still can't buy a Toyota though... Even with plants in the USA profits are still mostly going over seas.

I really believe Chevys will catch back up. Not sure about Ford though.

**IsUaClone2** · 07-25-2008, 10:29 PM

I'm too tired to address all the points made so I will just say that many of the symptoms noted are valid (i.e. poor product mix, inconsistent quality, high labor costs, inadequate forecasting, etc.) although sometimes there are slightly different underlying causes then are assumed. It is true that the American car companies were big bureaucratic companies ham-strung with governmental regulation and union demands on each side. I know that Ford closed two operations (Phillipines and Thailand) because they wouldn't pay bribes to the local government's representatives -- that didn't bother Toyota who considered just a valid local way of doing business. Also Toyota has stumbled a little with quality (due to growing too fast they said) and product mix (they now have a big pickup and very little market for it) which were the same problems that the Americans had faced -- albeit not well.

The war isn't over, however, when it is over things will not be the same as they were. I do think there will be at least two American full-line car companies with two Japanese, one or two European, one or two Chinese and maybe a Korean. They all will have slightly different strengths and weaknesses and as the world economies shift and cycle they each will rise and fall relative to each other. Better this future than the one we have for TVs, cameras, and other consumer electronics.

**dmclone** · 07-25-2008, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by bellzisu

Still can't buy a Toyota though... Even with plants in the USA profits are still mostly going over seas.

I really believe Chevys will catch back up. Not sure about Ford though.

I agree with you about Chevy being in better shape than Ford.

I never understood the logic of buying a domestic because the money stays in the U.S.. Maybe if you're a stock owner or they actually built all their cars here in the U.S.. The Big 3 have no more loyalty in building cars in America than the Japanese.

I have no problem with people buying them if they think that they are better but the loyalty thing confuses me.

**usedcarguy** · 07-25-2008, 10:42 PM

Most of the reasons have been mentioned, but I will add one:

Not knowing the differences between reliability and quality.

**dmclone** · 07-25-2008, 10:44 PM

I was just thinking how times have changed the other week when I went back to my hometown and looked at the cars people now drive. Back in 1989, I had an import and I would guess that there were maybe 5 other imports in the whole town (small town). Back then people just would not buy an import car. Now you go back and the trucks are still from the big three but most of the newer cars are imports.

**dmclone** · 07-25-2008, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by usedcarguy

Most of the reasons have been mentioned, but I will add one:

Not knowing the differences between reliability and quality.

That's right on the money and it doesn't matter what segment.

Just so you know I'm being fair, I had a Nissan 350Z and it's interior was as bad or worse than most domestic cars but the rest of the car made up the difference for me.