Would you let your 13-year old read this book?

[Cyclone62]

I'm only going to address the point(s) that seemed to be referring to my post.

That's what I get for referencing a book I haven't read. Time to reserve it at the library.

Tell you what. I grew up with a kid just down the street (my neighbor) in my hometown named Tim Downey. His parents moved across the river to Illinois before we were in junior high, but then, any attorney in Illinois can tell you about the "Tim Downey Law", as in what occurs after a young man ties up a neighbor woman and threatens her with a roaring chainsaw. And gets off because of a plea of "insanity".

At age six, I watched in horror when Tim stole from the corner store on our way home from grade school. Do I know where he got these anti-social ideas? How they blossomed and spread? No, but I knew my own version (perhaps even two) of the Unabomber, the last I knew permanently locked away when several years later he murdered his father and locked his mother and sister in a hoghouse.

I hope you'll forgive me for not touching on another friend (one from my adulthood) gone horribly wrong. And please don't suggest the common denominator is me.

Not all "Unabombers" are either so dramatic, so nationally publicized--or so distant.

And, don't try to tell me that petty theft is "normal" for a first grader. That's a fallacious argument.

So hey, if it's all so horrible for a committee of parents to read a book and say "Hey, it's better not to have this book in the school library," or more aptly, "We can have this in a Request Only" or "Restricted Section" for research purposes, where any parent can protest and debate the decision, I can't see it. I can live with that. Might not like it, but it's better than the alternative, with "impressionable young minds".

Some people have fussed over Catcher in the Rye. I've never seen the point. And our high school library had The World According to Garp on the shelf--but that was a high school library.

1. That sounds more like a societal concern than a literary one.

2. The problem that I have with this is that it keeps kids that ARE mature enough to handle it from having access to it. Some children are not lucky enough to be able to make it to public libraries because of parents that don't care, are too busy, or they have jobs to help support their family after school. Those are the ones being "robbed" of the ability to read these books. Even if they are capable of handling the content.

The other thing with parents, or a committee saying that a book is bad is that it is VERY easy to sway uninformed parents to your side of an argument about literature. I've had it used against me for what I was reading in the classroom. (Think Of Mice and Men and the "N" word being twisted into an argument that I'm a racist for liking the book). The ONE student that objected to the book got more than 4 other parental sets so dead-set against me that they wanted me outlawed from teaching because they had no idea of the context that I was using the book in the classroom. If those parents formed a formal committee, they could have likely banned the book easily even though they had no idea HOW it was being used.

However, I'm also of the belief that no book should be outlawed, hidden in far corners of a library, or censored in any way like that. Oddly enough, a large majority of banned books are also ones that tend to force the reader(s) to make a broad jump in their scope of the world. Heck, The Giver has an instance of euthanasia as a vehicle to show that Utopias are a) impossible and b) impractical for our current values in the US. (We would have to give up too many pleasures and freedoms to have a world free of violence. Freedoms that include the freedom of CHOOSING which book you want to read).

I think Ray Bradbury said it best: "Books are dangerous. They give people thoughts and ideas."

[Angie]

Bold are the points I was looking for. Children, even to being "young adults" will fasten on what they think is "cool", and that includes smoking. And they really aren't original enough to come up with lots of ideas by themselves.



And hardly my point. I was attempting hyperbole.



Don't believe that's what I said, but hey.



Points taken.


Apparently I should have known better.



That's what I get for referencing a book I haven't read. Time to reserve it at the library.

Tell you what. I grew up with a kid just down the street (my neighbor) in my hometown named Tim Downey. His parents moved across the river to Illinois before we were in junior high, but then, any attorney in Illinois can tell you about the "Tim Downey Law", as in what occurs after a young man ties up a neighbor woman and threatens her with a roaring chainsaw. And gets off because of a plea of "insanity".

At age six, I watched in horror when Tim stole from the corner store on our way home from grade school. Do I know where he got these anti-social ideas? How they blossomed and spread? No, but I knew my own version (perhaps even two) of the Unabomber, the last I knew permanently locked away when several years later he murdered his father and locked his mother and sister in a hoghouse.

I hope you'll forgive me for not touching on another friend (one from my adulthood) gone horribly wrong. And please don't suggest the common denominator is me.

Not all "Unabombers" are either so dramatic, so nationally publicized--or so distant.

And, don't try to tell me that petty theft is "normal" for a first grader. That's a fallacious argument.

So hey, if it's all so horrible for a committee of parents to read a book and say "Hey, it's better not to have this book in the school library," or more aptly, "We can have this in a Request Only" or "Restricted Section" for research purposes, where any parent can protest and debate the decision, I can't see it. I can live with that. Might not like it, but it's better than the alternative, with "impressionable young minds".

Some people have fussed over Catcher in the Rye. I've never seen the point. And our high school library had The World According to Garp on the shelf--but that was a high school library.

So, what exactly did Tim and your adult friend read that turned them to a life of crime? I'm just curious of the exact name(s), so that I can make sure to not be in the same room as those books. I don't really see how theft in first grade has anything to do with the argument, unless you can directly tell me how it was a book (and only a book) that caused him to steal. The story is all well and good, but totally irrelevant. I can find countless books that would instead have told him that it is wrong to steal - or that would have told you that it was wrong to just watch instead of doing something about it. I would defy you to find any books that someone reading at a first grade level would be able to understand that are proponents of stealing.

I have read your story three times and still have no clue how it relates to this argument even a little. I'm not saying that to be rude - I'm just truly lost.

And, if the parents are going to all of that effort to read the books, they will be just fine stopping their own kids from reading them and allowing OTHER PEOPLE'S KIDS to read whatever they want, instead of being overbearing know-it-alls forcing their wills on others.

So, by your rationale as well, we ought to ban all forms of media, correct? You never know what's going to turn an impressionable young mind into the next Unabomber. Why not ban Johnny Cash? He had songs about shooting a man just to watch him die, going to prison, and more - and he's an American icon. Just tell me where YOU think we should draw the line, as apparently you're the moral authority on this.

[Phaedrus]

I just saw a couple of the sketches, and Mom needs to lighten the heck up.

"The Bunny Suicides" is darned funny.

I'm wondering if there is a place one goes to get their sense of humor surgically removed.

[Cyclonepride]

Hiding teens from mention of the word "suicide" is probably as effective as not talking to them about drugs.

[Clonefan94]

I just saw a couple of the sketches, and Mom needs to lighten the heck up.

"The Bunny Suicides" is darned funny.

I'm wondering if there is a place one goes to get their sense of humor surgically removed.

Agree. I guess the sad part is is that some of them are actually kind of well thought out. Like you have to reference other things to actually get what the bunny is doing. This isn't a book of a bunny slaughterhouse people. It's a cartoon. Not much different from when every bad parent in the world was blaming Bart Simpson for their kids misbehavior. Really, the only problem I would see with this book is the kid who you already have to worry about. The kid that was killing frogs and read this book and said, wow, I'll switch to bunny's now. I still love the one of him putting in the video tape of "Lethal Attraction" I'm sorry, that makes me laugh.

I guess it's good to know that I could be wrong. And it's books like this that are the root of all evil in the world. I mean, just look at how Nazi Germany turned out. They were great at burning books. And it's not like the Bible or the Koran have ever caused any problems.

[jdoggivjc]

Agree. I guess the sad part is is that some of them are actually kind of well thought out. Like you have to reference other things to actually get what the bunny is doing. This isn't a book of a bunny slaughterhouse people. It's a cartoon. Not much different from when every bad parent in the world was blaming Bart Simpson for their kids misbehavior. Really, the only problem I would see with this book is the kid who you already have to worry about. The kid that was killing frogs and read this book and said, wow, I'll switch to bunny's now. I still love the one of him putting in the video tape of "Lethal Attraction" I'm sorry, that makes me laugh.

I guess it's good to know that I could be wrong. And it's books like this that are the root of all evil in the world. I mean, just look at how Nazi Germany turned out. They were great at burning books. And it's not like the Bible or the Koran have ever caused any problems.

You mean like this one?




Or this one?

[GeronimusClone]

Comics, anime, and Manga are making readers out of people that wouldn't normally read.

I found the same thing held true for me with Playboy and Hustler.

[Phaedrus]

I found the same thing held true for me with Playboy and Hustler.

Reading, or......whatever....

[isucyfan]

Just a follow up to the original story:

Local News | Oregon mom now says she'll return "Bunny Suicides" to school library | Seattle Times Newspaper

[Jetta]

Just a follow up to the original story:

Local News | Oregon mom now says she'll return "Bunny Suicides" to school library | Seattle Times Newspaper

So, any chance mommy might let her baby out of the plastic bubble before he's 21?

Someone put a red flag on any college application from a kid with the last name Taffey, because she's going to be the parent who tries to take control of campus to keep her child safe and protected.

[Phaedrus]

So, any chance mommy might let her baby out of the plastic bubble before he's 21?

Someone put a red flag on any college application from a kid with the last name Taffey, because she's going to be the parent who tries to take control of campus to keep her child safe and protected.

I think there is a genuine tradeoff here. Parents should want their kids protected to a certain extent, while there actually is a point where you have to let them find their way.

Unfortunately, there are crazies on both sides of the issue.

[iowast8fan]

This thread is too long, so I thought I would add to it to make it longer. I read through page 2 before giving up. If this was already mentioned...sorry.

I am 33, and anyone else around my age was probably into the garbage pale kid cards as a kid. Those things were disturbing with pictures of children having magets crawling out of them or other equally and even worse images. We all turned out fine. This is a large overreaction.

[iowast8fan]

I feel more for the child of the mother protesting. It has to be tough for a 13 year old to go back to school and face his classmates after his mother made such a public uproar about a book his peers thought was funny.

[Jetta]

I think there is a genuine tradeoff here. Parents should want their kids protected to a certain extent, while there actually is a point where you have to let them find their way.

Unfortunately, there are crazies on both sides of the issue.

I agree, but 13 is the time when kids finally develop formal operations. This is the time you should be training them in making the right choices, and giving them space to gain experience. Wanting a library to not have a book so that it won't even be there doesn't teach him to make good choices, it just makes the choice unavailable. And there are worse/more dangerous choices to be made than reading a comic where bunnies commit suicide. I went to a private high school and it seemed to me the ones protected the most were inevitably the ones that went completely off the deep end in very dangerous ways when they got their first taste of freedom (I will admit myself in that group as well, I was fortunate to survive my choices as relatively unscathed as I did).

The other side of the issue is that parents like to accuse "others" of exposing their children to dangerous things. I have a stepdaughter, age 14. Her mother lets here watch court tv, Family Guy, and talks all the time about how "mature" she is. I let her read a graphic novel series of mine, "Y the Last Man." I was condemned by both mom and then the stepdaughter because I exposed her to inappropriate materials because it had "bad words" in them. It'll be the 7th ring in Inferno before I ever let her borrow any literature of mine again. Not because I believe in censorship, but because I don't appreciate being lynched as the scapegoat.

I will also agree that the 13 year old is truly the one that loses out in this situation. It's so hard to be this age.