GM needs government assistance to operate

**Irresponsible** · 11-07-2008, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by stateofmind

. Save money, or invest, don't spend just to spend. Get out of debt.

I agree with your post, but if people only bought cars with cash, G.M. (or any other automaker) has no chance.

**BryceC** · 11-07-2008, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Irresponsible

I agree with your post, but if people only bought cars with cash, G.M. (or any other automaker) has no chance.

This is actually a recent development - car companies didn't make a lot of money on financing until fairly recently. Henry Ford hated the idea.

**dmclone** · 11-07-2008, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by stateofmind

I will always buy GM as long as there is one to buy. I would've loved to have bought a Toyota, Honda or Nissan, the last time around. But I want to keep American companies going if I see that they are trying to fix their past mistakes. GM was a joke in the 80s, and have paid for it ever since. But have you test driven a Malibu, Impala, Acadia, Silverado, etc? They are a work of art in my opinion and I think they are working harder than any on the alternative fuel options.

Do you want to stop the slide of the economy? Stop buying crap made in China that you don't need. Start buying American if you have to buy anything. If you can't find an American-made product, which I know is hard, ask yourself if you NEED it. Save money, or invest, don't spend just to spend. Get out of debt.

A couple observations.

#1 I'm all for buying American as long as the quality is there. If everyone in America only bought domestic cars than you wouldn't see any improvement in their cars. I'd still be driving around in a 1989 Firebird Formula that had leaking T-tops the first time I took it to the car wash with 10 miles on the odometer.

#2 As far as saving money, I agree but part of saving money is about buying cars with strong resale value. For the last 10 years the big 3 have done everything to completely ruin resale value. You go out and buy an SUV because it's marked down by $2,000. The only problem is that 6 months later they are offering $5,000 off a new one and now your car is worthless.

#3 I agree that GM has a few models that are excellent. The problem is with the other 96 that suck.

#4 Alternative fuels-E85 is a joke and everyone knows it. The Big two are now(finally) starting to come around to building hybrids but they should have been working on them 10 years ago when they we're making all kinds of money off of the SUV's. The Hybrids they are building now are usually SUV's that will get you about 5mpg better but cost $5,000 more. Where is GM's version of the Prius, which has been around forever? Do they have a car that gets anything close to 40mpg? Hell a 20 year old GEO metro got over 40mpg. Just like everything else they are late to the game.

**dmclone** · 11-07-2008, 12:53 PM

BTW-I would give my left one for a Corvette in the garage.

**jaretac** · 11-07-2008, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by dmclone

Manual should no longer be an option (yes even on the corvette) The automatics today can actually get better gas mileage and just as good of performance.

I'm not a big fan of manuals with everyday driving, but there are areas of this country where they are much much better then automatic. Anywhere that there are mountains and open areas or if your planing on hauling allot, the manual is better. Cities and flat land for an everyday commute to work, get an automatic please.

The automatics might be just as good for gas mileage, but they won't last nearly as long and they are not as good for performance in mountainous areas, off of the interstate. I've seen it, believe me.

**dmclone** · 11-07-2008, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by jaretac

I'm not a big fan of manuals with everyday driving, but there are areas of this country where they are much much better then automatic. Anywhere that there are mountains and open areas or if your planing on hauling allot, the manual is better. Cities and flat land for an everyday commute to work, get an automatic please.

The automatics might be just as good for gas mileage, but they won't last nearly as long and they are not as good for performance in mountainous areas, off of the interstate. I've seen it, believe me.

Have you tried a DSG type automatic? I had one in a VW GTI and it worked excellent. The same technology is also found in a 1,000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron so they are up to handling the power.

It's also my inderstanding that most semi's now use a form of auto transmission but I'm not familar with the technology.

I think the technology is there it just needs to be adopted.

**cycloneace55** · 11-07-2008, 02:16 PM

From what I have heard about GM's situation is that the largest amount of money they have to pay out every month is for the UAW pension fund. Yet another reason where a workers union has held a company hostage over the years. I for one don't want to see the government give any tax dollars to GM, they have proven over the years that they can't change with the evolving auto industry and seem to be two steps behind the Toyotas and Hondas of the world. That and the "I buy GM cuz its made in America" just doesn't fly any more since Toyota, Honda, and even BMW have very successful manufacturing plants here in the us. Find out which models are build in the states and buy those.

**dmclone** · 11-07-2008, 03:21 PM

I wonder what % of the cost per car is for things like pensions, etc.?

**jbhtexas** · 11-07-2008, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneace55

From what I have heard about GM's situation is that the largest amount of money they have to pay out every month is for the UAW pension fund. Yet another reason where a workers union has held a company hostage over the years.

Blame the Union doesn't hold water anymore. GM's pension has been underfunded for years, and they've been pulling smoke and mirrors to essentially cover it up. Instead of taking measures to shore up the pension fund and make GM more financially sound, GM took the route that would keep their stock price the highest. Stockholders apparently turned a blind eye to the situation. Time to pay the piper.

See this article from 2003...

GM's Pension Peril

I have absolutely no sympathy for General Motors...

**jbhtexas** · 11-07-2008, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by dmclone

I wonder what % of the cost per car is for things like pensions, etc.?

I heard on an economic talk show about a year ago that pension cost GM was well over $1000 per vehicle...

**dmclone** · 11-07-2008, 04:08 PM

Mist imports are more than $1,000 than their domestic counterpart so build a better car and raise the price.

**Phaedrus** · 11-09-2008, 06:53 PM

Ah, yes. GM approaching the government with their hand out, again.

After WWII, they successfully received 57 Million dollars from the US government for the damage that our bombers did to their plants in Nazi Germany.

GM actively managed their vehicle plants through most of 1944, through the good offices of Sweden. That's right, when our boys were being slaughtered on the beaches of Normandy, American GM managers were making money building cars, trucks, tanks and guns for the freaking Nazis.

Remember the saying "What's good for General Motors is good for America?" The first time that was said, was in reference to paying the millions to GM scumbags for the damage done when our bombers hit their plants during WWII.

I hope they go broke and burn in hell.

**Iastfan112** · 11-09-2008, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by dmclone

Manual should no longer be an option (yes even on the corvette) The automatics today can actually get better gas mileage and just as good of performance.

Consumer Reports tends to disagree with you.

Fuel economy test manual vs automatic transmission

**Wesley** · 11-09-2008, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by BryceC

What would it take to break the union contracts? Honestly if they want to become viable in a world market and stop being a tax burden they probably need to do that.

The govt would have to step in and pay the bills for the union. Detroit will get the help per pelosi and others. Hearing that they truly have enough money for just two months as they burn $1.5B a month and they need $11-14B to operate on out of their remining $16B. A lot of dealerships would be lost and no one would want to buy a car with warranty from a bankrupt company. Guess what? No one wants to buy a car right now from anyone. So we could loan $50B and watch it go bye bye in a year anyway. Right now everyone is starting to look for the free handouts. Lets get back to sports.

**dmclone** · 11-09-2008, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Iastfan112

Consumer Reports tends to disagree with you.

Fuel economy test manual vs automatic transmission

I agree that in a perfect world the standard manual beats the auto in fuel mileage.

Noticed in my previous statement I said CAN. The technology is there, it just needs to be put in place. I would also bet that the average person driving a stick would actually get worse gas mileage in the real world.

The CVT transmission is another example of a transmission that can get better gas mileage than a manual.