Buy an American Vehicle!

[capitalcityguy]

I'm not talking about the employees. I'm talking about the company as a whole. More specifically the people responsible for the financial stability of the company. The analogy was aimed at them and it holds true because they had nothing until they received the handout.

My point is, the media painted this story that it was an executive perk when in fact it wasn't. It was a reward for top salespeople.

[brianhos]

Of course not!

So the american tax payer gets to pay for this, but they don't?

How about we just give the money right to the workers and skip the middle man.

[leg4cy]

Really? The middle-class workers at American Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai plants seem to be doing just fine. In fact, the majority of these employees would fight to the death in order to keep unions out of their factories as they would be in a much worse position if the unions were representing them than they currently are in dealing with their companies themselves.

CyBobby, did you read this post?

[brianhos]

And thanks for letting this stay on the main page for so long. I like to hear differing opinions rather than the 6 of us in the cave :)

[Clonefan94]

The unions have been great for the country, but they have lived past their useful lives.

Unions have definitely become a monster in some industries, that's for sure. To say they have lived past their useful lives is a little off the mark though. They need to change and adapt to the times. You can't have it all, if there is nothing to give. On the other hand though, when the Executives of a company are making tens of millions a year, it's pretty hard for the union to not justify paying someone $50/hour for actual labor. I'm definitely a go out and make due for yourself kind of guy. And I don't agree with the Unions trying to grab every dollar, but, it goes both ways. When the execs are making so much more, by millions a year and you tell people you have to eliminate their job because they and the union are the reason the company is failing is pretty short sited in my opinion.

I'd say right now, you're just lucky that you haven't worked for a company that's pretty much left everyone holding nothing, while they squeaked away without missing a drop in lifestyle perks. I was one of the ones who saw it coming and warned everyone I could. A lot of people I know were left with nothing though. And there was nothing they could do about it.

[DaddyMac]

Unions only have one thing in mind... it members, collapse of the company be damned.

A direct quote from a coworker, whom I disagree with frequently, but it made me think... "Should a guy who puts on a tire all day have the same benefits as us (public accountants)."

I have a hard time saying they should not have the same benefits but who should decide this? If the company you work for can't pay the benefits you demand, either your at the wrong company or you are demanding too much. Time for unions to go the way of the mainframe computer.

Unions have only one thing in mind - it's own survival.

Members are secondary to that goal.

I worked in a union facilty for 8 years. The union members may as well have taken their dues out the parking lot and burned them - that's the net benefit they got out of it.

Hours were cut, wages decreased or stayed stagnant. And in the end, the place closed. BTW - we had some of the highest production levels and efficiencies of any division in the company. But were the only union shop. Two guesses as to why they closed our doors?

I hold nothing against people who are in unions. I don't get it. I don't see the benefits any longer. To each their own. 70 years ago, sure. Not today. My experience shows they are almost a hinderance to many of their members.

[cycloneace55]

If we do bail out the automakers how much of that money will end up in the pockets of the Unions? governing the amount of compensation to executives of the companies is one thing, how about the compensation of the UAW leadership?

[cycloneG]

My point is, the media painted this story that it was an executive perk when in fact it wasn't. It was a reward for top salespeople.

I have my beefs with the media as well, but right now I'm venting about Congress and the poor management of AIG.

[Clonefan94]

Unions have only one thing in mind - it's own survival.

Members are secondary to that goal.

I worked in a union facilty for 8 years. The union members may as well have taken their dues out the parking lot and burned them - that's the net benefit they got out of it.

Hours were cut, wages decreased or stayed stagnant. And in the end, the place closed. BTW - we had some of the highest production levels and efficiencies of any division in the company. But were the only union shop. Two guesses as to why they closed our doors?

I hold nothing against people who are in unions. I don't get it. I don't see the benefits any longer. 70 years ago, sure. Not today. My experience shows they are almost a hinderance to many of their members.

Right, and that ends up being the problem. The union, instead of a group of people looking out for one another has become it's own entity with it's own corporate problems and misgivings.

Oh and BTW, I drive an F-150. My wife a Toyota. As a direct comparison of these two cars. Neither one has outperformed the other as far as reliability goes. My truck is 10 years old and still starts as good every morning as the 2 year old Toyota. Maybe I'm just lucky, but that's been the way with every car I've owned. All American BTW. Not that I'm a "Buy American" guy necessarily, but, I do get upset when everyone says American cars are crap. I've never had problems that any countries cars wouldn't have. In fact, the worst car I've ever personally been a witness to, were Volvos. I've known two people who owned them, and both spend considerable time in the shop, brand new.

[snowcraig2.0]

Right, and that ends up being the problem. The union, instead of a group of people looking out for one another has become it's own entity with it's own corporate problems and misgivings.

Exactly, I worked at Rockwell as a Production Manager. I left after 6 months because of the union and its ability to protect workers that should have been fired 20 years ago.

[brianhos]

Unions have definitely become a monster in some industries, that's for sure. To say they have lived past their useful lives is a little off the mark though. They need to change and adapt to the times. You can't have it all, if there is nothing to give. On the other hand though, when the Executives of a company are making tens of millions a year, it's pretty hard for the union to not justify paying someone $50/hour for actual labor. I'm definitely a go out and make due for yourself kind of guy. And I don't agree with the Unions trying to grab every dollar, but, it goes both ways. When the execs are making so much more, by millions a year and you tell people you have to eliminate their job because they and the union are the reason the company is failing is pretty short sited in my opinion.

I'd say right now, you're just lucky that you haven't worked for a company that's pretty much left everyone holding nothing, while they squeaked away without missing a drop in lifestyle perks. I was one of the ones who saw it coming and warned everyone I could. A lot of people I know were left with nothing though. And there was nothing they could do about it.

Hmm, I actually worked for a company that failed and went through ch11. It was not a good thing and I was at the bottom of the totem pole at the time. But the company was able to shed all the bad decisions of the past and came out a better company. Sure some people got rich, and I did not, but they are the execs of the company, they deserve more money than I make. I am very happy with what I have, and I don't base my life on wanting what I do not deserve.

[Mr Janny]

Unions only have one thing in mind... it members, collapse of the company be damned.

A direct quote from a coworker, whom I disagree with frequently, but it made me think... "Should a guy who puts on a tire all day have the same benefits as us (public accountants)."

I have a hard time saying they should not have the same benefits but who should decide this? If the company you work for can't pay the benefits you demand, either your at the wrong company or you are demanding too much. Time for unions to go the way of the mainframe computer.

So it's class warfare you're after? Don't get me wrong, I think most unions as they exist today are corrupt/corruptible, and have lost sight of their original purpose. But who is to judge what an assembly line employee deserves? Who determines the hierarchy of jobs? So if "accountant" comes before "tire assembler" where does "software programmer" come in? How about "Lion tamer?" Does the employee not get a say in where they rank? Employees do need to have a voice, and that voice needs to have some clout. So, the idea of the union, in my mind, is a good one. I am, however, in favor of regulating and reorganizing unions.

[Cyclonesrule91]

2 things...........................

1. Unions are apart of this mess. Any job where tenure is worth more then actual job performance is wrong. I'll work at jobs where I get paid on my performance because I know I can earn my good pay. Unions force companies to pay all employees like they are top performers without much fear at all for losing their job based on crappy performance.

2. I was a diehard GM man until last year when my Dodge Caravan was starting to act up with 75,000 miles. I drove a Honda Odyssey for 10 minutes and knew the quality of the Dodge couldn't touch the Honda. Now I have a Ridgeline parked next to the Odyssey. It will take a huge move for me to go back to GM and/or Chrysler now.

[bellzisu]

Unions have only one thing in mind - it's own survival.

Members are secondary to that goal.

I worked in a union facilty for 8 years. The union members may as well have taken their dues out the parking lot and burned them - that's the net benefit they got out of it.

Hours were cut, wages decreased or stayed stagnant. And in the end, the place closed. BTW - we had some of the highest production levels and efficiencies of any division in the company. But were the only union shop. Two guesses as to why they closed our doors?

I hold nothing against people who are in unions. I don't get it. I don't see the benefits any longer. To each their own. 70 years ago, sure. Not today. My experience shows they are almost a hinderance to many of their members.

I worked for Tyson Fresh Meats a few years back. A couple of the companies that are under the Tyson family name are ran by union labor.

I can tell you one thing.... They are the least profitable, and often first thought about when they are forced to cut jobs, production, or an overall facitlity.

Now Tyson is a bad example because of their illegal workers, but in many ways it's the only labor they can get, cause unions don't want their workers doing some of those jobs. And instead of the $15 an hour those jobs pay, the union wants them to pay $30 an hour if not more.

I'm sure it's the same way in auto companies to a point...

[Cyclone06]

Hours were cut, wages decreased or stayed stagnant. And in the end, the place closed. BTW - we had some of the highest production levels and efficiencies of any division in the company. But were the only union shop. Two guesses as to why they closed our doors?

Because it was union! Whoo, whoo what do I win?

A union creates an us vs. them mentality between management and employees, when it should be we as a team need too create a better product cheaper... whatever.

If someone doesn't like there job or benefits why must they run to someone outside the company for help? Go to the man and ask for it. Then demand it. If it doesn't come, you leave. If everyone leaves, the company has no labor. Of course this is what most of Mexico wants to see happen, but thats another topic.