GM to phase out Pontiac, Saturn

Here is the plan that GM submitted to Congress:

http://www.freep.com/assets/PDF/1202gmplan.pdf

Apparently they consider Pontiac a niche brand. I haven't found any recent sales numbers, but I'd guess that the Buick brand sells significantly more than Pontiac.

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Originally Posted by Clonefan32

Sorry for the ignorance...what does this mean if you own a saturn or a pontiac? I would imagine it would become much harder to service and the overall value will go down.

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They would service them at another GM dealership, I would assume, although I hate to do that.

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Originally Posted by jumbopackage

The Malibu/G6 (essentially badge engineered brothers) is a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, it's too little and too late, IMO.

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I'm pretty sure G6 and Malibu are different platforms. The Malibu came out years later, and more importantly is a larger (and better, nicer) car.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clonefan32

Sorry for the ignorance...what does this mean if you own a saturn or a pontiac? I would imagine it would become much harder to service and the overall value will go down.

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Since they are just badge-engineered GM products, all of the parts will be available still. There is nothing really unique about them, aside from badges.

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Originally Posted by herbicide

I'm pretty sure G6 and Malibu are different platforms. The Malibu came out years later, and more importantly is a larger (and better, nicer) car.

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They are both built on the same platform (episilon). Here are Episilon platform cars from GM currently:

* Regular
o 2002 Opel Vectra
o 2003 Saab 9-3
o 2004 Chevrolet Malibu
o 2006 Cadillac BLS

* Extended
o 2003 Opel Signum
o 2004 Chevrolet Malibu Maxx
o 2005 Pontiac G6
o 2005 Fiat Croma
o 2007 Saturn Aura
o 2008 Chevrolet Malibu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jumbopackage

Simplify your lineup. Make a few GOOD cars instead of trying to make a ton of average ones, and making it confusing for shoppers.

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+1, again and again.

IMO, this is likely the biggest issue the big 3 struggle with - mostly GM and Ford.

All over the map, always significantly changing something, etc. When companies are frequently doing major retooling, it's a good sign they're having issues.

Not unlike sports teams and them frequently changing their look.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jumbopackage

Since they are just badge-engineered GM products, all of the parts will be available still. There is nothing really unique about them, aside from badges.



They are both built on the same platform (episilon). Here are Episilon platform cars from GM currently:

* Regular
o 2002 Opel Vectra
o 2003 Saab 9-3
o 2004 Chevrolet Malibu
o 2006 Cadillac BLS

* Extended
o 2003 Opel Signum
o 2004 Chevrolet Malibu Maxx
o 2005 Pontiac G6
o 2005 Fiat Croma
o 2007 Saturn Aura
o 2008 Chevrolet Malibu

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I could swear the Malibu is bigger. I know I like it better, it is much more refined.

"Badge engineering" is being done by practically all makers, sans BMW and Mercedes. Of course, that is if you consider badge engineering as platform sharing, not like what GM did in the 1980s.

Audi's are badged VW's, Acura's -> Honda, Lexus -> Toyota, Infinity -> Nissan. Some Jags are badged Ford Tauruses.

Goodbye Saturn...Hello Chevrolet...Seems to be the message from General Motors!!


Less Cars-Higher Prices....Less Workers-Higher Prices...Less Plants-Higher Prices...

Does anyone see a recurring theme here???


Gentlemen and GentleLady, Introducing the new chevy volt and the price is 40000!!!:biglaugh::biglaugh:

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Originally Posted by herbicide

I could swear the Malibu is bigger. I know I like it better, it is much more refined.

"Badge engineering" is being done by practically all makers, sans BMW and Mercedes.

Audi's are badged VW's, Acura's -> Honda, Lexus -> Toyota, Infinity -> Nissan. Some Jags are badged Ford Tauruses.

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The difference being they have distinctly different products marketed at distinctly different markets.

You know the difference if you're behind the wheel of an A6 or a Passat. You know when you're driving a Lexus vs. a Toyota. Same with Infinity or Acura.

Those brands are all luxury brands.

What is the difference in the market for a G6 or a Malibu?

G6 strikes me as a 20 something college grad car with no family, or somewhat sporty car.

Malibu is intended to be a Camry/Accord competitor. More family orientated.

I have rented oodles of both of them, I would not consider them in the same class or market.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyBobby

Goodbye Saturn...Hello Chevrolet...Seems to be the message from General Motors!!


Less Cars-Higher Prices....Less Workers-Higher Prices...Less Plants-Higher Prices...

Does anyone see a recurring theme here???


Gentlemen and GentleLady, Introducing the new chevy volt and the price is 40000!!!:biglaugh::biglaugh:

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I heard the volt would be 30k, of course that is probably without batteries or a steering wheel.

NO MORE PONTIAC GAME CHANGING PERFORMANCES????? NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by brianhos

I heard the volt would be 30k, of course that is probably without batteries or a steering wheel.

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Maybe they can cut out the floor on the bottom, Flintstone style. Would improved gas use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by herbicide

G6 strikes me as a 20 something college grad car with no family, or somewhat sporty car.

Malibu is intended to be a Camry/Accord competitor. More family orientated.

I have rented oodles of both of them, I would not consider them in the same class or market.

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Exactly. I view the G6 as a nicer vehicle for high school (I shudder typing that) or college age kids. The Malibu I view as the family vehicle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by herbicide

G6 strikes me as a 20 something college grad car with no family, or somewhat sporty car.

Malibu is intended to be a Camry/Accord competitor. More family orientated.

I have rented oodles of both of them, I would not consider them in the same class or market.

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G6 MSRP: 21,600 - 29,250
Malibu MSRP: 21,605 - 30,460

They are certainly different cars, and that's the problem. They have the same engines, the same drivetrain, the same chassis, same interior space the same price, and they are different cars.

That car needs to be the same car. Make the "G6" a package as opposed to a separate offering.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/pri...n_code=1&aff=1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jumbopackage

Simplify your lineup. Make a few GOOD cars instead of trying to make a ton of average ones, and making it confusing for shoppers.

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And then there is the Scion brand, which is targeted at the "hipster" crowd. I would argue this is where Saturn probably SHOULD have been, but the difference is that Toyota actually makes distinct vehicles in this brand that are different than anything else they offer. I'd say just roll this into the Chevy brand as well.

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I think that's where Saturn started. I'm sorry to see Saturn go since my first new car was a Saturn. I bought an L-series the first year they came out. At the time they were different, a car company (or at least a division) content to make good little cars. They started making bigger cars with the L, and I was happy with mine. When I saw Saturn was going to release the Vue, I knew they'd abandoned their original philosophy. Now they're like any other brand on the road.