Shirley - No sympathy for Haiti

**Cydkar** · 01-26-2010, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by galactawitz

After reading Pauls blurb, there are some valid points in there. However, there are some that are way way off. By his way of thinking, we should abandon all costal cities because the threat of a tsumami basically exists anywhere. And California should be abandoned all together because earthquakes could occur there at any time.

I think the real heart of the issue for me is I can't just sit there and see innocent children suffer. There are a lot of people doing a heck of a lot more than me to help those in need during this disaster, but I guess it makes me feel a little better that my minisule donation may have helped someone along the way.

Hati is Hati, and the US has played its part in history to help screw it up. Granted things could be done better politically to solve some of the countries problems, but I fail to see how these things relate to a humanitarian effort during a natural disaster. I would feel the same sorrow for those in need if it were Brazil, El Salvador, or maybe even Canada.

And the people that lived 8 blocks from the river in Cedar Rapids are stupid mouth breathers.

I'm talking to Paul here.

**bos** · 01-26-2010, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by clones_jer

don't we already?

we have welfare and food stamps and soup kitchens and unemployment and subidized housing and subsidized education and a whole slew of organizations like the Salvation Army and last I checked we donate more through religous affiliations than anything else.

you'd have to try pretty damn hard to live in Haitian conditions in the US.

There is never anything wrong with helping others in need - in fact I'd be embarrassed if we didn't.

It pains me greatly, but I agree with you _jer. Some of our worst are other nations' best. Not saying its right, but its just truth.

**Cycsk** · 01-26-2010, 03:02 PM

At the risk of asking too much of CFers whose reading/writing skills are more like those of WJ and offensive sets, I would recommend a book I just got. It is called "Dead Aid: Why Aid is Not Working and How There is a Better Way for Africa." It argues that the recipients of $1 trillion in development-related aid has made things much worse. I think it explains the problem better than the solution. I see nothing proposed that will work because they all lack to proper incentives for personal responsibility and sacrifice.

**clones_jer** · 01-26-2010, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by bos

It pains me greatly, but I agree with you _jer. Some of our worst are other nations' best. Not saying its right, but its just truth.

thanks for the sweet signature Bos.

**weR138** · 01-26-2010, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Flag Guy

I doubt the entire country can rebuild to a code (hey, most of them probably can't afford it) but foreign aid would be well spent to build some infastructure for the rest of the country to slowly build around

Hopefully the UN/other countries decide on some oversight for their money, so it doesn't come off as a US occupation and/or put pressure on us to throw the money over the fence

How are a code and cost related? The buildings that killed the most people were built with concrete and steel. If the Haitians can afford this type of construction they can afford to build by code that has seismic provisions in it. All they need is for someone to give it to them and advise them how to use it.

**1100011CS** · 01-26-2010, 03:04 PM

I would agree with Paul if he was just talking about U.S. aid. As in aid from our government. But he is also talking about donations from individuals going to the Haitians to meet their immediate needs. Two different things IMO.

**wartknight** · 01-26-2010, 03:04 PM

How many of you actually read the whole blog? I think he makes some very valid points. The emotional side of a lot of us won't allow us to think about those points though.
I had some of the same thoughts he did about birth control down there- I see tons of children are orphans now and that is absolutely sickening to me, but I also know there were many before the quake. Not the kids' faults I know, but who in their right mind would bring children into that situation down there?

**Tre4ISU** · 01-26-2010, 03:04 PM

I agree with him for the most part. Why should we donate a bunch of money to a country who has proven to do nothing with any resources they have had in the past. They have not proven they can sustain any sort of economy and cannot be successful on their own. That is vast majority of the country. There are very few, if any, nice parts of the country. It is really a waste of money IMO. There will be things rebuilt only to become dilapidated in the very near future. Far sooner than they should.

I am not heartless and I don't believe Paul is either. I think it is realistic. The real problem I have is that there are people out there giving money to this Haiti cause that don't give anywhere near the same to their own country;s poor or disabled or whatever other cause you want to substitute. There will be people who give to Haiti that did not give after Katrina. I don't understand it.

I have nothing against people who give money to Haiti, I don't have a problem. It is their money and I very much believe that people should be able to do what they please with what they earn. I just have a problem with all of this being shoved down my throat and it almost feels like I am being guilted into giving money or feel bad if I don't.

**frontrangeclone** · 01-26-2010, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Cycsk

At the risk of asking too much of CFers whose reading/writing skills are more like those of WJ and offensive sets, I would recommend a book I just got. It is called "Dead Aid: Why Aid is Not Working and How There is a Better Way for Africa." It argues that the recipients of $1 trillion in development-related aid has made things much worse. I think it explains the problem better than the solution. I see nothing proposed that will work because they all lack to proper incentives for personal responsibility and sacrifice.

To keep with the reading recommendations, I'll also suggest to CF's the book "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins, and it will shed more light on what that other 75% of the world is in dire circumstances.

**bos** · 01-26-2010, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by clones_jer

thanks for the sweet signature Bos.

And thank you for the kind words.

**HILLCYD** · 01-26-2010, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by frontrangeclone

To keep with the reading recommendations, I'll also suggest to CF's the book "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins, and it will shed more light on what that other 75% of the world is in dire circumstances.

+1

Read the book. Very eye opening.

**clones_jer** · 01-26-2010, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by clones_jer

thanks for the sweet signature Bos.

oh that has to be against some site rule

**Flag Guy** · 01-26-2010, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by MLawrence

In the grander scheme of things, he is right. Since we live in America we can be spoiled and maybe sometimes we take that for granted. We have to be thankful that we live in a country where we have the resources to help ourselves in times of disasters and the ability to help other nations as well. However, he is right about the way the money should be used. The money should be used to make the country more self-sufficient.

This can be summed up in three words:

AMERICA - **** YEAH!!!

I wanted to put a picture here, but all the ones I found would be taken down pretty quick

**WalkingCY** · 01-26-2010, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Cycsk

Putting his tone aside, he does raise good points that ought to be addressed. Americans are famous for their generosity in times of need, but only for a short time. Do we even remember that there was a huge, devastating earthquake in Pakistan less than a year ago? Neither our huge spontaneous outpourings of voluntary charity nor our huge governmental budgeted expenditures really end up making much of a difference in the long run. Right now, we are keeping people alive in Haiti, certainly a good thing, but toward what end? The track record of relief and development efforts is not very good.

I agree here.

**Flag Guy** · 01-26-2010, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by wartknight

How many of you actually read the whole blog? I think he makes some very valid points. The emotional side of a lot of us won't allow us to think about those points though.
I had some of the same thoughts he did about birth control down there- I see tons of children are orphans now and that is absolutely sickening to me, but I also know there were many before the quake. Not the kids' faults I know, but who in their right mind would bring children into that situation down there?

It's called ignorance, with a side of boredom and lack of other recreation. Note I didn't mention lack of profilactics, because that takes knowledge of them first (see ignorance)