Tiger may need new knee

[Tre4ISU]

Here is the big difference. In years past Tiger would have made that charge on the front 9, 5 or 6 guys at the top of the leaderboard would have **** their pants and collapsed, Tiger would have gone another 3 under on the back 9 and ended up blowing away the field down the stretch.

In todays reality, Tiger made his run on the front 9, the crowd and people watching on tv enjoyed it, and the guys at the top of the leaderboard played on without any fear of Tiger. Schwartzel shot 32 on the back 9, Adam Scott shot 33 on the back 9, Jason Day shot 32 on the back 9, Geoff Ogilvy shot 31 on the back 9, Luke Donald shot 34 on the back 9, Ryan Palmer shot 32 on the back 9, etc.... Rory imploded on the back 9 but it had absolutely NOTHING to do with Tiger Woods. You could see right from the get go that he was in big trouble as he missed shot after shot on the front 9 and was barely hanging on to his game. You can't just hang on to your game on the back 9 at Augusta on Master's Sunday.... that just doesn't happen.

I agree with you in this instance. I don't agree with it never happening again though. Let's say Tiger get's healthy and get's better. Do you think that if he comes out and wins 3 or 4 times at the beginning of a year that same effect won't come back? I think it would with anyone, not just Tiger. He certainly doesn't have that effect now but it's because he's not winning. If he starts winning again the same thing will come back around.

I also never really bought the Tiger intimidation thing outside of the person playing with him or maybe the group ahead or behind him. Tiger was done when Schwartzel went off. In fact he was close to out of it when all those guys went off.

[erikbj]

I agree with you in this instance. I don't agree with it never happening again though. Let's say Tiger get's healthy and get's better. Do you think that if he comes out and wins 3 or 4 times at the beginning of a year that same effect won't come back? I think it would with anyone, not just Tiger. He certainly doesn't have that effect now but it's because he's not winning. If he starts winning again the same thing will come back around.

That's a big IF.........he has not shown us much in the past couple seasons, plus his mental edge (which i think was bigger than physical) is gone. No one is scared of him and if he ever does get hot, one of the players has to go up to Tiger and say, "Denny's waitress??? Come on Tiger you can do better than that."

When Tiger came onto the scene, he was the young stud and he was beating up on guys that were older and not physically fit. It took a generation of athletes to catch up physically, but they are here and they are hitting the ball farther than Tiger ever did. Plus these young kids are not scared of Tiger, like the PGA was from 1998 - 2008. He doesn't have the intimidation factor - EVEN if he won a couple times, no one is scared of him.

[cy4prez7]

That's a big IF.........he has not shown us much in the past couple seasons, plus his mental edge (which i think was bigger than physical) is gone. No one is scared of him and if he ever does get hot, one of the players has to go up to Tiger and say, "Denny's waitress??? Come on Tiger you can do better than that."

When Tiger came onto the scene, he was the young stud and he was beating up on guys that were older and not physically fit. It took a generation of athletes to catch up physically, but they are here and they are hitting the ball farther than Tiger ever did. Plus these young kids are not scared of Tiger, like the PGA was from 1998 - 2008. He doesn't have the intimidation factor - EVEN if he won a couple times, no one is scared of him.

I'd be a little cautious with that statement. If Tiger comes back and wins several tournaments, he could start to bring it back. It will take him more than a couple of wins though. They may not be scared of him now but if he wins, the scare factor could come back.

[Tre4ISU]

That's a big IF.........he has not shown us much in the past couple seasons, plus his mental edge (which i think was bigger than physical) is gone. No one is scared of him and if he ever does get hot, one of the players has to go up to Tiger and say, "Denny's waitress??? Come on Tiger you can do better than that."

When Tiger came onto the scene, he was the young stud and he was beating up on guys that were older and not physically fit. It took a generation of athletes to catch up physically, but they are here and they are hitting the ball farther than Tiger ever did. Plus these young kids are not scared of Tiger, like the PGA was from 1998 - 2008. He doesn't have the intimidation factor - EVEN if he won a couple times, no one is scared of him.

I know that's a big if but no ones ever going to be scared of someone who isn't winning. A player is never going to say that to him either. You don't think Tiger ever won with heckling either? I think that's the least of his worries.

Tiger's length is such a myth. Yeah, he can hit it far but he has never won simply because of length. Remember that British Open he won while hitting one driver all week? Steve Stricker isn't long, but he competes. Jim Furyk has competed for a long time. Zach Johnson doesn't hit it anywhere. He doesn't have to have the length to compete. He needs to putt like he used to. If he did during the Masters, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. He was terrible on the greens and still had a chance to win. There's going to be courses that he won't be able to compete on. I realize that. There will, however be courses that he will be able to compete on for a long time, IMO. The majority of British Opens aren't about length. Most US Opens don't depend on length. The Masters may or may not depend on length.

[Cyclonestate78]

That's a big IF.........he has not shown us much in the past couple seasons, plus his mental edge (which i think was bigger than physical) is gone. No one is scared of him and if he ever does get hot, one of the players has to go up to Tiger and say, "Denny's waitress??? Come on Tiger you can do better than that."

When Tiger came onto the scene, he was the young stud and he was beating up on guys that were older and not physically fit. It took a generation of athletes to catch up physically, but they are here and they are hitting the ball farther than Tiger ever did. Plus these young kids are not scared of Tiger, like the PGA was from 1998 - 2008. He doesn't have the intimidation factor - EVEN if he won a couple times, no one is scared of him.

I totally agree here. Tiger's edge is gone for good. Even if Tiger comes back and wins a few times it won't matter. His little infidelity issues were the nail in his coffin. Players were intimidated because Tiger was unstoppable, pressure never got to him, he ALWAYS made the critical putt when he needed it the most, etc... Unfortunately his little issues at home drove home the point to all of the other players who thought Tiger was invincible.... he is just a man like everyone else.

[cy4prez7]

I don't understand how you guys can think Tiger's edge is gone for good!! I understand it's gone right now and will be gone for a while. But he's only 35, if two or three years down the road he starts winning again it could very well come back. I'm not saying that's how it's going to happen because Tiger is a big IF right now. But that's a pretty bold and imo risky statement to say it will NEVER happen again.

[Tre4ISU]

I totally agree here. Tiger's edge is gone for good. Even if Tiger comes back and wins a few times it won't matter. His little infidelity issues were the nail in his coffin. Players were intimidated because Tiger was unstoppable, pressure never got to him, he ALWAYS made the critical putt when he needed it the most, etc... Unfortunately his little issues at home drove home the point to all of the other players who thought Tiger was invincible.... he is just a man like everyone else.

The guys on tour aren't basing their opinion of Tiger's competitive level on what he did at home. They aren't standing on the 14th tee going "Man I know he's won 4 out of 8 tournements this year but he got caught cheating so I'm not scared."

I thought Feherty said it best. It was something like, "I learned very early in his career that to say Tiger Woods will never do something sets you up to look like a complete idiot."

[Cyclonestate78]

I don't understand how you guys can think Tiger's edge is gone for good!! I understand it's gone right now and will be gone for a while. But he's only 35, if two or three years down the road he starts winning again it could very well come back. I'm not saying that's how it's going to happen because Tiger is a big IF right now. But that's a pretty bold and imo risky statement to say it will NEVER happen again.

The reason is simple. Tiger's game isn't what it once was. His mental status on the golf course isn't what it once was. The intimidation factor isn't what it once was. His physical dominance compared to his peers on Tour isn't what it once was. If it takes Tiger 2 or 3 years to get his game back he is going to be 2 or 3 years behind the guys that are already passing him right now. Tiger isn't the guy setting the pace anymore... he is the guy trying to catch up to the pack and the longer it takes him to get his game figured out the further behind he will be.

[Tre4ISU]

The reason is simple. Tiger's game isn't what it once was. His mental status on the golf course isn't what it once was. The intimidation factor isn't what it once was. His physical dominance compared to his peers on Tour isn't what it once was. If it takes Tiger 2 or 3 years to get his game back he is going to be 2 or 3 years behind the guys that are already passing him right now. Tiger isn't the guy setting the pace anymore... he is the guy trying to catch up to the pack and the longer it takes him to get his game figured out the further behind he will be.

So I guess the base of the argument is whether Tiger will get back to the top or not. You don't think so, I do. Every argument beyond that relies on that so I am going to just have to agree to disagree.

[cy4prez7]

The reason is simple. Tiger's game isn't what it once was. His mental status on the golf course isn't what it once was. The intimidation factor isn't what it once was. His physical dominance compared to his peers on Tour isn't what it once was. If it takes Tiger 2 or 3 years to get his game back he is going to be 2 or 3 years behind the guys that are already passing him right now. Tiger isn't the guy setting the pace anymore... he is the guy trying to catch up to the pack and the longer it takes him to get his game figured out the further behind he will be.

I understand that for the time being. I can also see how you think the intimidation factor won't return. It's one thing to say "I don't personally think it will happen but there's a chance". But to say there is zero chance that will happen again it a pretty bold statement.

[cy4prez7]

The guys on tour aren't basing their opinion of Tiger's competitive level on what he did at home. They aren't standing on the 14th tee going "Man I know he's won 4 out of 8 tournements this year but he got caught cheating so I'm not scared."

I thought Feherty said it best. It was something like, "I learned very early in his career that to say Tiger Woods will never do something sets you up to look like a complete idiot."

+1

[Rural]

Tiger and Phil are still #1 and #2 in the world but it's not in the rankings. They are probably still the best two at playing from the trash and posting a somewhat decent score.
The problem with that is, you won't win majors doing it.

[Tre4ISU]

Tiger and Phil are still #1 and #2 in the world but it's not in the rankings. They are probably still the best two at playing from the trash and posting a somewhat decent score.
The problem with that is, you won't win majors doing it.

Yet they have combined to win 7 Masters and 17 majors. Neither one has ever been what anyone called accurate off the tee.

[Cyclonestate78]

The guys on tour aren't basing their opinion of Tiger's competitive level on what he did at home. They aren't standing on the 14th tee going "Man I know he's won 4 out of 8 tournements this year but he got caught cheating so I'm not scared."

I thought Feherty said it best. It was something like, "I learned very early in his career that to say Tiger Woods will never do something sets you up to look like a complete idiot."

The guys on Tour looked at Tiger as a winning machine. Look at Rocco Mediate at the 2008 US Open... while watching Tiger putt a quick 17 footer, down the slope, down grain, and breaking hard right to left the last 3 or 4 feet to tie him for the lead on the 72nd hole.... the putt drops and Rocco's response on camera.... "I knew it. I knew he would make that." How many guys would think the same thing about Tiger today? Like I said before these guys looked at Tiger as invincible, a guy incapable of collapsing under pressure, a guy that would never screw up, a guy that was incapable of failure, period. That status was destroyed when he got busted and became the laughing stock of the sports world. His game has never been the same and he himself has never been the same. Add on to that his physical issues and Tiger has never looked weaker then he does right now. These guys aren't scared of him anymore. He isn't invincible, he can fail, and he most certainly can screw up. Golf mimics life in a way... when Tiger's life fell apart so did his golf game. Coincidence?

Just click this video to around the 1:35 mark and watch....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx2BS1u4fiw]YouTube - ‪Tiger Woods US Open 18th Hole Putt‬‏[/ame]

[Tre4ISU]

The guys on Tour looked at Tiger as a winning machine. Look at Rocco Mediate at the 2008 US Open... while watching Tiger putt a quick 17 footer, down the slope, down grain, and breaking hard right to left the last 3 or 4 feet to tie him for the lead on the 72nd hole.... the putt drops and Rocco's response on camera.... "I knew it. I knew he would make that." How many guys would think the same thing about Tiger today? Like I said before these guys looked at Tiger as invincible, a guy incapable of collapsing under pressure, a guy that would never screw up, a guy that was incapable of failure, period. That status was destroyed when he got busted and became the laughing stock of the sports world. His game has never been the same and he himself has never been the same. Add on to that his physical issues and Tiger has never looked weaker then he does right now. These guys aren't scared of him anymore. He isn't invincible, he can fail, and he most certainly can screw up. Golf mimics life in a way... when Tiger's life fell apart so did his golf game. Coincidence?

Just click this video to around the 1:35 mark and watch....

YouTube - ‪Tiger Woods US Open 18th Hole Putt‬‏

Have you read anything I have posted? I never argued with the current state of Tiger or his competition. You keep saying the same thing. You talk about how things are now. I'm saying it's ridiculous to think it wouldn't change and it doesn't matter who the player is.