Matt Holliday is a dirty player

**cyko42** · 07-30-2011, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by CycloneDaddy

I will be shocked if he doesn't get hit tomorrow. Not sure what the tv situation is like in St Louis ... maybe the players didn't see a replay until after the game???

I'm not sure what the TV situation is like either in the Club houses. My thought is the second baseman should know its dirty when it happened shouldn't he?

That being said, if the cubs want to hit him tomorrow in the ribs in his first at bat, that's the way the game works (or should if the MLB allowed things to be handled by the players). From what I've seen of Matt Holiday (and why I am defending him), he'll wear it like a man, take his base and it will be over.

If they don't can we all just agree then that it wasn't dirty?

**CycloneDaddy** · 07-30-2011, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by cyko42

I'm not sure what the TV situation is like either in the Club houses. My thought is the second baseman should know its dirty when it happened shouldn't he?

That being said, if the cubs want to hit him tomorrow in the ribs in his first at bat, that's the way the game works (or should if the MLB allowed things to be handled by the players). From what I've seen of Matt Holiday (and why I am defending him), he'll wear it like a man, take his base and it will be over.

If they don't can we all just agree then that it wasn't dirty?

This is what is great about baseball. For the most part the players police themselves. If they don't hit him tomorrow then in the players eyes it was a clean play. Fans can banter back and forth but for the most part it gets taken care of between the lines.

**tm3308** · 07-30-2011, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by CycloneDaddy

This is what is great about baseball. For the most part the players police themselves. If they don't hit him tomorrow then in the players eyes it was a clean play. Fans can banter back and forth but for the most part it gets taken care of between the lines.

There are plenty of football players who don't think that the illegal hits are always dirty. And in they aren't always dirty. But they're still illegal hits.

That's how I look at this. I don't think the play was dirty, but I think that Holiday broke the actual rules (NOT the unwritten ones).

It was a play where you have to try and do what Holiday did. He won't get beaned, because any true player would have done the same thing. If you get dinged for interference, you just have to take it, that's part of the game. But every guy in the clubhouse would do it, no matter what team it is.

**baller21** · 07-30-2011, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by cyko42

Since interference is a judgement call in the MLB its the umpire's judgement to decide if a runner interferes with a player trying to make a play. The way I always understood is it is only called if you can not touch the bag when you make the slide. Holiday could of touch the bag if he would of dropped his hand (from the replays I saw, and what Tim Macarver pointed out). I've never heard anyone say you have to actually touch the bag for it not to be interference.

yeah I know the rule, it's just my personal opinion. The NFL is full contact and they don't allow intentional tripping or leg whips, why should the MLB?

**rebecacy** · 07-30-2011, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by cyko42

I'm not sure what the TV situation is like either in the Club houses. My thought is the second baseman should know its dirty when it happened shouldn't he?

That being said, if the cubs want to hit him tomorrow in the ribs in his first at bat, that's the way the game works (or should if the MLB allowed things to be handled by the players). From what I've seen of Matt Holiday (and why I am defending him), he'll wear it like a man, take his base and it will be over.

If they don't can we all just agree then that it wasn't dirty?

When you are as bad as the cubs are for as long as they have been.... nothing will ever be over. Remember, everyone that was alive when last they won a World Series Championship, is not only dead but totally decomposed. Much closer to the Civil War than 9/11.

**CycloneDaddy** · 07-30-2011, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by rebecacy

When you are as bad as the cubs are for as long as they have been.... nothing will ever be over. Remember, everyone that was alive when last they won a World Series Championship, is not only dead but totally decomposed. Much closer to the Civil War than 9/11.

Thanks for reminding me that my dead grandpa that I use to watch games with when I was young never saw them when a world series. I think I'm going to change my favorite team to the Yankees so that I can witness a World Championship.

**rebecacy** · 07-30-2011, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by CycloneDaddy

Thanks for reminding me that my dead grandpa that I use to watch games with when I was young never saw them when a world series. I think I'm going to change my favorite team to the Yankees so that I can witness a World Championship.

One of my dad's death bed highlights, when he was eventually dying from a wound to the spine that was initially inflicted during the WWII invasion of Europe, was that he never had to endure a Cubs WS win. This brought him such delight that it makes it especially important to me. Someday, maybe you'll be mature enough to understrand the passion of the MLB game and how important these old rivalries really are. It's about the game........ not you or me. The cubs have a special place in history as the lovable losers....................... embrace it and expect nothing more. How anyone can look at the past and not see that is beyond me.

**cyko42** · 07-30-2011, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by baller21

yeah I know the rule, it's just my personal opinion. The NFL is full contact and they don't allow intentional tripping or leg whips, why should the MLB?

Because its part of the game? Has been for a long time. And I hardly compare sliding at a middle infielder (most often who is prepared and vacating the area with a jump) as the same as sliding at someones legs as they run down the sideline.

They allow sliding at someones legs in soccer.
They don't in Football.
They do in Baseball.
They don't in Hockey.

There is a difference with how the sports are played, the intent of the actions and how they are policed.

**ianoconnor** · 07-30-2011, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by cyko42

Because its part of the game? Has been for a long time. And I hardly compare sliding at a middle infielder (most often who is prepared and vacating the area with a jump) as the same as sliding at someones legs as they run down the sideline.

They allow sliding at someones legs in soccer.
They don't in Football.
They do in Baseball.
They don't in Hockey.

There is a difference with how the sports are played, the intent of the actions and how they are policed.

False.

**cyko42** · 07-30-2011, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by ianoconnor

False.

You are right, They allow sliding at the ball even when it is at someones feet.

Technically they don't allow it in baseball either then. They allow sliding at base and as long as you can touch the base you are in the base line hence no violation....

So Tripping and Leg whips are illegal everywhere.

**baller21** · 07-31-2011, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by cyko42

Because its part of the game? Has been for a long time. And I hardly compare sliding at a middle infielder (most often who is prepared and vacating the area with a jump) as the same as sliding at someones legs as they run down the sideline.

They allow sliding at someones legs in soccer.
They don't in Football.
They do in Baseball.
They don't in Hockey.

There is a difference with how the sports are played, the intent of the actions and how they are policed.

Actually, if you watch the replay this was more of a kick to the shins than a slide, and he didn't even attempt to touch the bag . The more I watch it the dirtier it looks.

**CloneFan65** · 07-31-2011, 02:35 AM

That play cost the Cubs the opportunity to lose 12-5 instead of 13-5.

Based on how late he slid I could see the umpire calling it interference, but that doesn't make it a dirty play.

**CloneFan65** · 07-31-2011, 02:41 AM

And if I were a Cubs fan I'd be more angry at Castro for having his head you know where after the play, allowing a run to score.

**tm3308** · 07-31-2011, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by CloneFan65

That play cost the Cubs the opportunity to lose 12-5 instead of 13-5.

Based on how late he slid I could see the umpire calling it interference, but that doesn't make it a dirty play.

Actually, that play was the turning point in the game. Instead of the Cubs getting out of the inning with a 5-3 lead (had the play been ruled interference), the Cards scored two runs on that play alone, and ended the inning with a 10-5 lead. That play was huge.

**tm3308** · 07-31-2011, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by CloneFan65

And if I were a Cubs fan I'd be more angry at Castro for having his head you know where after the play, allowing a run to score.

Dude was a little shaken up on the play, slow to get up. I suppose Ricky Stanzi had his head up his a** for not getting up to recover that fumble against Northwestern in the endzone