You beat me to it. I was going to say the asterik next to his stats needs to be the same size as his PED-swollen head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acylum
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You beat me to it. I was going to say the asterik next to his stats needs to be the same size as his PED-swollen head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acylum
If Pete Rose can't be in, then Bonds and other juicers sure as hell shouldn't be either imo.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone101
This is the saddest argument ever. Who is to say he wouldn't have gotten hurt and been done? You know steroids are normally used to speed healing right? The only guy I am sure never roided was Ken Griffey. He was always on the DL.Quote:
Originally Posted by laminak
Besides all power numbers are far too over inflated. You can't compare eras, because when they lowered the mound half a foot, forcing pitchers to throw into the wheelhouse, those numbers became meaningless.
You missed his point. Had his career ended in 1998, Barry Bonds would have been a hall of famer. By all accounts, Bonds didn't start using until after 1998 and getting ****** about Sammy and Big Mac getting all the love while being juiced out of their minds.Quote:
Originally Posted by brett108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark
Really? How can you go off sheer size factor? ARod is probably on the juice, and he never really got any bigger. I don't think we can use the"he didn't look like Schwarzenneger yet" argument.
There's no 'probably' with A-Rod...
If you believe Game of Shadows, he didn't start until after watching Sosa and McGwire get all the love in '98.Quote:
Originally Posted by brett108
Bonds had what would typically be described as an outstanding year in '98: .303 BA, .438 OBP, 1.047 OPS, 37 HR, 122 RBI, and 28 stolen bases. Yet he was completely overshadowed by a pair of juicers. He decided he couldn't get the attention he deserved without also cheating. Given what we know about Bonds and his personality, that sounds like a pretty logical chain of events. He also suddenly stopped stealing bases after '98, after being one of the league's most pilferous baserunners.
His elbow injury in '99 was also a big clue. That was before he "allegedly" started using HGH; HGH is the key for steroid users to avoid bulking up to the point where their ligaments and tendons can't handle the muscle mass. It strengthens those ligaments and tendons, enabling an athlete to continue adding strength.
He'll go in the asterisk HOF along with A-ROD. A cheater is a cheater is a cheater. I'd rather have average players from that "era" get into the HOF than have the star players that everyone knows was on the juice. At least that leaves the HOF with some integrity. No person that cheats should ever be put on a pedestal, it sets a bad precedent for the next generation.
Sammy Sosa agrees!
He should be in without a doubt. He was the best player in the league in the early-mid 90's without steroids. Then in a league full of guys juicing, he was far and away the best player. This isn't a guy who just hit home runs like McGuire, he had an OBP of over .600 one year. If you do that, I don't care how much you cheat, you deserve to be in.
If I had a vote, how do I vote for Bonds if I didn't vote for McGwire?
Amen, brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone101
4,256
Because Bonds was 10X the player Mac was? That's kinda like saying, I don't think I can vote Greg Maddux into the HOF since I didn't vote for Jack Morris.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughtius
A little off topic, but I just went to Cooperstown for Barry Larkin's induction. You guys HAVE to go if you're a baseball fan. It was so awesome.