Lance Armstrong gives up fight

**VeloClone** · 08-24-2012, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by kberyldial

I'm surprised that there is so much love for Armstrong as if any of us truly know the guy. Personally, I used to believe that he was clean. Not anymore. Cycling on that level is the dirtiest sport in the world and he was on top for a long time. I think he cheated the whole time. The "I passed every test" argument plays to the masses but the reality is that it really isn't saying that much. Bonds never failed a test either. Lance has sued and fought every inch of the way and NOW he chooses to let the world judge him? I think he knew the testimony of SEVERAL teammates, etc. was on the horizon and he chose to take the easy way out. "I can't fight anymore blah blah blah..." That way he never admits guilt and can always say just that. BTW - beating cancer has absolutely nothing to do with this.

This is probably where I have the biggest problem. Cycling probably was the dirtiest sport in the world at one time (Festina affair, anyone?). But then they decided to do their very best to clean it up. They have been at the very tip of the spear in testing and accountability and the most public with cleaning things up. And what is the result? They continue to be dragged through the mud because they are actually catching a good portion of the cheaters rather than sitting with their heads in the sand like much of the rest of sport (MLB, I'm looking at you, for starters). They continue to be doing the most toward preventing doping, yet they have black eyes in the public view while people think other sports are mostly clean because they do little and even keep private initial failed tests for their athletes.

It is easy to look like no one is cheating in your sport if you are doing next to nothing to catch those who are. One of the most damning facts for MLB that cheating is rampant in baseball is how much the players union has stood in the way of MLB at every step of the way. If the cheating was an outlier the majority of players, and thus their union, would want more stringent testing and controls, so that the cheaters are not beating the clean majority. The cheaters are the majority so they stand in the way of doping controls.

I don't know what to believe about Lance anymore. Many witnesses, if they truly have them all are pretty damning. However, being the single most tested athlete in the world for years upon years, in season and out, and never failing a test is hard to ignore as well. Unfortunately I can never watch an amazing performance in cycling anymore without having doubt in my mind.

**redrocket22** · 08-24-2012, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsCy

The whole thing has the stink of Greg LeMond all over it. I'll bet he's driving it from behind the scenes

I doubt that - Lance has punished Greg enough that Greg is staying on the sidelines on this one. Cheering wildly perhaps but I think he is staying out of it.

**Acylum** · 08-24-2012, 09:57 AM

My question would be why are there so many witnesses? Either A: He was really stupid and didn't care if someone saw him or B: It was so rampant that they were all doing it in front of each other like no big deal. If the answer is B, he was the best in a sport where everybody was cheating anyway. Let him keep his titles.

**redrocket22** · 08-24-2012, 10:03 AM

You have to let go of the most tested athlete spiel - there are so many cycling dopers that have been caught through investigations that never failed tests so clearly the athletes know how to beat the tests. The ones that fail the tests are doing it wrong.

There are also accusations of the failed Armstrong drug test that was covered up via donations to the UCI.

**ianoconnor** · 08-24-2012, 10:08 AM

USADA CEO on now.

Dan Patrick Player

**NobodyBeatsCy** · 08-24-2012, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by redrocket22

You have to let go of the most tested athlete spiel - there are so many cycling dopers that have been caught through investigations that never failed tests so clearly the athletes know how to beat the tests. The ones that fail the tests are doing it wrong.

There are also accusations of the failed Armstrong drug test that was covered up via donations to the UCI.

I respectfully disagree, Red. You simply can't take away this man's titles based on the word of another cyclist. Additionally, the accusations are not "more true" just because you have more than one "witness" willing to get in line to tell their story. People lie, and they lie all the time. I think lying to the USADA is not punishable by jail time, either. Science is much more reliable. Tests nailed Floyd Landis and it was quick, indisputable and done. They have nothing like this on Armstrong - and between the French and USADA - God, have they tried.

**Cyclone1985** · 08-24-2012, 10:16 AM

Sad to say, but instead of "innocent until proven guilty", the media has turned everything into, "guilty until proven innocent." Then you get to play damage control for the rest of your life...

**cycloneace55** · 08-24-2012, 10:17 AM

I can't say I am shocked by the, cycling has never been a "clean" sport in regards to PEDS. Hell, blood doping was used by TEAM USA in the 1984 olympics, it just wasn't illegal then. I ceased to care a long time ago. As far as Lance being a good guy? Again I really don't care, the fact the media likes to think him a role model is typical. Yes he has done a lot of good through his Livestrong foundation, but its well know he can be a real jerk. Either way this is just the culmination of a long and wasteful issue that just will not go away. Word of mouth vs lack of testing evidence will only drag this out in the court of public opinion much longer then necessary.

**VeloClone** · 08-24-2012, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsCy

between the French and USADA - God, have they tried.

This bears repeating.

**redrocket22** · 08-24-2012, 10:24 AM

The payments and associations with a doctor/coach who was infamous for PED's is enough for me.

Floyd only got nailed because he was no longer getting his program from Armstrong's doctor...

**NobodyBeatsCy** · 08-24-2012, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by redrocket22

The payments and associations with a doctor/coach who was infamous for PED's is enough for me.

Floyd only got nailed because he was no longer getting his program from Armstrong's doctor...

Guilt by association and hearsay evidence. May work in a USADA kangaroo court, but not in a real one - thank God!

**Angie** · 08-24-2012, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by CyclonesRulzzz

going after a cancer survivor, some people have no shame.

I understand your sentiment, but you can only play the cancer card for so long. I say this as a two-time cancer survivor. Lance's disease has made him a lot of money and gotten him a lot of fame. How many other cancer survivors can claim that?

**Cyclone1985** · 08-24-2012, 10:35 AM

Can USADA actually strip him of his titles? I thought they are just a third party agency.

**NobodyBeatsCy** · 08-24-2012, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Angie

I understand your sentiment, but you can only play the cancer card for so long. I say this as a two-time cancer survivor. Lance's disease has made him a lot of money and gotten him a lot of fame. How many other cancer survivors can claim that?

Why are you against me at every turn?!?! Why do you hate me so?!?!? I say white, you say black! I say tomato, you say tomahto. This from my only "friend" on CF! ;-)

**Mr Janny** · 08-24-2012, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsCy

Guilt by association and hearsay evidence. May work in a USADA kangaroo court, but not in a real one - thank God!

yeah, but if they determine that it's a good enough indicator, then that's all they need. The USADA is not a court of law, so the rules of one don't apply. Just like the NCAA, they don't need proof beyond a reasonable doubt. They aren't held to that high of a standard.