Sage 3-0 as starter

**clones_jer** · 12-14-2007, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by jdewaard

I think it's hard to say that Atlanta messed up that bad. After all, what is Schaub's record as a starter with Houston? 4-7? Not exactly lighting the world on fire is he? And he's also hurt, you say? Wow, Atlanta really dropped the ball by letting an injured quarterback with a losing record go.

That being said, I do agree with you in that Shockley getting hurt was a big blow to the Falcons, but Schaub or no Schaub, this team wasn't likely to do much from the get go.

Well, the winning statistics for Sage are skewed a little too - you'll notice his starts for Miami aren't mentioned.

Schaub probably isn't as bad as 4-7 and Sage isn't as good as 3-0, the rest of the Houston Texan players and their opponents have something to say about the outcomes as well.

That said Sage has put in a ton of quality minutes everywhere he's been a backup and does deserve a starting job in todays NFL where over half of the starting spots are not in the near future.

Reading earlier comparisons of his situation to Shaubs last year did give me a shutter ... please please don't get him (Sage) traded to the Falcons. That's a mess nobody wants.

**mj4cy** · 12-14-2007, 09:36 AM

Cuz the Texans would look like idiots for paying Schaub a ton to sit on the bench. Maybe they will start Sage the rest of the year though!

**jdoggivjc** · 12-14-2007, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by cycloneworld

Shockly has never thrown a pass in the NFL correct? I'm not so sure Schaub was that expendable (maybe they got a good deal they couldn't pass up?). Those are some big expectations on a guy who hasn't even played in the NFL yet. Schaub had shown multiple times (when in Atlanta) that he was a capable NFL starter.

You obviously know more about the Falcons than I do, did Schaub fit into Petrino's system? Or did they strictly want to groom Shockley into the eventual starter?

Schaub is basically a slower version of Vick, and Vick didn't even fit into Petrino's system. I think that was one of the selling points - They were willing to make it work with Vick (with his talent and all), but not with Schaub. Sometimes I wonder what kind of QB is capable of playing in his system, as neither runners nor pocket passers are a fit for his system

I still think the biggest problem in Atlanta never was the QB (although Harrington's never going to be the solution there) - it's the WRs. They cannot catch a lob pass thrown perfectly to them. I'm not going out there to say that Vick or Harrington would be the greatest passers in the league with a different receiving corps, but a lot of Vick's completion % is explained by the fact that his receivers continuously flat out dropped balls they should have caught (I'd say his completion % could have been at least 5, maybe 10 points higher if they held onto the passes). That was the whole reason why the Falcons brought in an aging Joe Horn from New Orleans - to mentor the Falcons' receivers and teach them to catch in the NFL. Obviously it hasn't worked, as they continue to drop passes, and I think it's time to start over with the receiving corps.

**clones_jer** · 12-14-2007, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

Schaub is basically a slower version of Vick

No he isn't. Shaub is completely different than Vick. He is a pocket passer with a little mobility, mostly because he's younger.

That was always the contrast when he came in to back up Vick the offense totally changed to a down the field attack vs the ground game short passes offense with Vick.

**jdoggivjc** · 12-14-2007, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

Schaub is basically a slower version of Vick

Originally Posted by clones_jer

No he isn't. Shaub is completely different than Vick. He is a pocket passer with a little mobility, mostly because he's younger.

That was always the contrast when he came in to back up Vick the offense totally changed to a down the field attack vs the ground game short passes offense with Vick.

When I was watching a MNF game a couple of years back, when Vick was out with injury and Schaub was playing, that was the comparison they made. He HAD to be more of a "pocket QB" than Vick simply because he didn't have his wheels (he can't make defenders miss him in the open field like Vick could), but he does have a set of wheels compared to average QBs. He also doesn't have the cannon that Vick possessed. But basically he was labeled as a "similar" QB to Vick.

**Mr Janny** · 12-14-2007, 09:57 AM

Well, the winning statistics for Sage are skewed a little too - you'll notice his starts for Miami aren't mentioned.

Schaub probably isn't as bad as 4-7 and Sage isn't as good as 3-0, the rest of the Houston Texan players and their opponents have something to say about the outcomes as well.

That said Sage has put in a ton of quality minutes everywhere he's been a backup and does deserve a starting job in todays NFL where over half of the starting spots are not in the near future.

Reading earlier comparisons of his situation to Shaubs last year did give me a shutter ... please please don't get him traded to the Falcons. That's a mess nobody wants.

No doubt that Sage's numbers are skewed as well. My point is that some will point to the Matt Schaub deal as a huge mistake. I can guarantee you that there is a contingent of fans in Georgia that think that the Falcons would be a .500 team (or better) if they hadn't moved Schaub away to Atlanta. And it just isn't so. I'll admit that Schaub looked decent when he was a falcon, and probably deserved the money he got, but I don't think you can call his loss a big mistake. Atlanta let a lot of talent go this past offseason. For example, in addition to current NFL sack leader Pat Kerney, they let go their starting fullback and number two wide out. Couple that with the fact that no one knew that the Vick case was about to come down and the prospect of a decent backup in Shockley, and why would they think that Schaub wasn't expendable? So they unload him to Houston and get a draft pick that they spend on a Justin Blalock, who is starting for them now. Hardly a stupid move. In hindsight you can second guess, but this made sense at the time.

Don't get me wrong, I think that losing Schaub hurt the Falcons. They probably would be in a better place right now if they had him. A lot better? Doubtful. This was a team that had a black cloud over it from the start of the season.

**jdoggivjc** · 12-14-2007, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by jdewaard

So they unload him to Houston and get a draft pick that they spend on a Justin Blalock, who is starting for them now. Hardly a stupid move. In hindsight you can second guess, but this made sense at the time.

Don't get me wrong, I think that losing Schaub hurt the Falcons. They probably would be in a better place right now if they had him. A lot better? Doubtful. This was a team that had a black cloud over it from the start of the season.

They actually spent that draft pick on Jamal Anderson (first round) and Chris Houston (second round), both from Arkansas - Atlanta got Houston's 1st and 2nd round picks, as they didn't have one of their own last year (I forget what happened to it).

**cycloneted** · 12-14-2007, 11:02 AM

As a side note, sage is Kissing Suzy Kolber's Meast of the Week:

Kissing Suzy Kolber: Sean Taylor Memorial Meast of the Week -- Happy Holidays to our Readers

Don't be alarmed by the first picture, the article gets to Sage.

**Mr Janny** · 12-14-2007, 11:19 AM

They actually spent that draft pick on Jamal Anderson (first round) and Chris Houston (second round), both from Arkansas - Atlanta got Houston's 1st and 2nd round picks, as they didn't have one of their own last year (I forget what happened to it).

You're right about Jamal Anderson, but they took Justin Blalock with the second round pick that they got from Houston. The pick that they used on Chris Houston was later in the round and aquired from Minnesota.

Regardless, this only strenghthens my point. For Matt Schaub, the Falcons got a top ten pick and an early 2nd round pick that resulted in a starting D-lineman and O-lineman. No way you can call getting rid of Schaub a "big mistake."

**jdoggivjc** · 12-14-2007, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by jdewaard

You're right about Jamal Anderson, but they took Justin Blalock with the second round pick that they got from Houston. The pick that they used on Chris Houston was later in the round and aquired from Minnesota.

Regardless, this only strenghthens my point. For Matt Schaub, the Falcons got a top ten pick and an early 2nd round pick that resulted in a starting D-lineman and O-lineman. No way you can call getting rid of Schaub a "big mistake."

Ok, the Falcons' pick that they got from the Texans in the first round was #9, and the Falcons' second round pick was also #9 - that's how I came to the conclusion that they were both from the Texans. I stand corrected.

But anyway, I absolutely agree with you. Personally, I think right now Schaub is just the "flavor of the week." I don't think he's capable of being a franchise QB, especially when the Falcons, when they traded him, were in more desperate need of defensive help instead of more QBs. It made the trade a wise investment and I do not regret trading Schaub away at all.