IndyCar series

**jumbopackage** · 02-22-2008, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by wesley_w

I'm not being argumentative, but even though the CART teams raced in the 500, it was never a CART sanctioned race. It was sanctioned by USAC and then the USAC officials kind of morphed into the IRL. Although it did count as points in the CART championship.
Again, I'm not trying to be a smartass Jumbo because your point is well taken, I just wanted to point this fact out. I will never be in disagreement that when the split occurred the best teams and drivers went to CART.
When I first started going, the 500 was even an F1 points paying race and I got to see Jimmy Clark (my all time favorite) and Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart all race live!!! That was a great era because there was a mixture of so many types of cars and engines. Front and rear engines in the same race was something to see!!

No, I understand the difference. And I TOTALLY agree with you about the early days. That's what I dislike about NASCAR, and to some extent IRL, so much. It's about 1 or 2 iterations of rules away from being IROC (and so is IRL). I love the innovation and the "smarts" off the track as much as I love the racing on raceday. It's all about preparation and innovation as opposed to a lot of luck and a fair amount of driver talent. Unfortunately, that takes away from the "stars" of the race, which aren't the crews but the drivers, and it tends to not be highly profitable.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Tony George/IRL basically leveraged the race and racetrack to create a new league that few people outside of their little fiefdom thought really needed to exist. It'd be like someone taking Daytona and creating an IROC series out of it, or taking the Superbowl and using it to start the XFL. Some teams would find that there's no reason to be involved in a NASCAR without Daytona or a NFL without a superbowl so would go right over.

That analogy is a bit weak because Indy was way way more important to the open wheel world than Daytona is to NASCAR or even the Superbowl is to the NFL, but it's hard to find another sport that has something comparable. Maybe the NCAA tournament and college basketball?

I'm not a fan of CART anymore than I am of IRL. I like them both. I felt at the time, and to some extent now, like the kid stuck in the middle of an ugly divorce with one way unreasonable parent who has a trump card.

**isufbcurt** · 02-22-2008, 02:25 PM

Banking = Speed
Mainly because the banking turns the car which allows the driver to drive it deeper into the corner without lifting out of the throttle.

For example Sprint cars run around the Knoxville, IA track with an average speed of 140 mph. When they filled the Bristol Motor Speedway with dirt and let them run there they were averaging close to 180 mph (yes they were faster than the NASCAR boys) mainly do to the banking. Both Knoxville and Bristol are flat out tracks (meaning they are always at full throttle) for the sprints and both are the same distance and configured pretty similar. The only difference is the banking, Knox is flat and Bristol is banked tremendously.

I know I wasn't talking Indy cars but I was using dirt track racing (my specialty) to explain the banking effect.

**taco2000** · 02-22-2008, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by wesley_w

I'm not being argumentative, but even though the CART teams raced in the 500, it was never a CART sanctioned race. It was sanctioned by USAC and then the USAC officials kind of morphed into the IRL. Although it did count as points in the CART championship.
Again, I'm not trying to be a smartass Jumbo because your point is well taken, I just wanted to point this fact out. I will never be in disagreement that when the split occurred the best teams and drivers went to CART.
When I first started going, the 500 was even an F1 points paying race and I got to see Jimmy Clark (my all time favorite) and Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart all race live!!! That was a great era because there was a mixture of so many types of cars and engines. Front and rear engines in the same race was something to see!!

Were those the years that Indy counted toward the F1 world championship? That would have been something to see.

**jumbopackage** · 02-22-2008, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by isufbcurt

Banking = Speed
Mainly because the banking turns the car which allows the driver to drive it deeper into the corner without lifting out of the throttle.

For example Sprint cars run around the Knoxville, IA track with an average speed of 140 mph. When they filled the Bristol Motor Speedway with dirt and let them run there they were averaging close to 180 mph (yes they were faster than the NASCAR boys) mainly do to the banking. Both Knoxville and Bristol are flat out tracks (meaning they are always at full throttle) for the sprints and both are the same distance and configured pretty similar. The only difference is the banking, Knox is flat and Bristol is banked tremendously.

I know I wasn't talking Indy cars but I was using dirt track racing (my specialty) to explain the banking effect.

On a totally different note, have you found it confusing now that it's the Sprint cup and some people will see "Sprint cars" as "Sprint Cup Cars"?

**wesley_w** · 02-22-2008, 03:49 PM

I'm not sure if I ever posted the links to my late fathers photos from Indianapolis but here they are. These particular groups are from the 40's and 50's. These are probably not of interest to the great majority here, but if you want to see some vintage auto racing photos these qualify. Dad had great access because my uncle (on my mothers side) was a riding mechanic back in the 30's and then crewed cars at Indy up till the early 60's. He was on the pit crew of four Indy 500 winning cars. Some of the photos survived a flood so are not in the greatest shape.

Wesley Winterink's IndyCar Photographs

**06_CY** · 02-22-2008, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by jumbopackage

On a totally different note, have you found it confusing now that it's the Sprint cup and some people will see "Sprint cars" as "Sprint Cup Cars"?

I heard one of the comentators says "Sprint Car" during the Daytona broadcast instead of "Sprint Cup." I found it amusing.

**jumbopackage** · 02-22-2008, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by wesley_w

I'm not sure if I ever posted the links to my late fathers photos from Indianapolis but here they are. These particular groups are from the 40's and 50's. These are probably not of interest to the great majority here, but if you want to see some vintage auto racing photos these qualify. Dad had great access because my uncle (on my mothers side) was a riding mechanic back in the 30's and then crewed cars at Indy up till the early 60's. He was on the pit crew of four Indy 500 winning cars. Some of the photos survived a flood so are not in the greatest shape.

Wesley Winterink's IndyCar Photographs

Wesley - those pictures are amazing! Stuff like that trips my trigger.

Thanks!

**Steve** · 02-22-2008, 05:10 PM

Wesley - great photos as usual. I got a good laugh from shot 2-006 with the driver instructions chalked in above the instrument panel - RELAX.

**cyclonedave25** · 02-22-2008, 05:32 PM

I have a question to those of you who are smart when it comes to Indy cars.
Being at the race last year in Iowa and seeing that there was little passing and such.
I heard that they are changing the wings, etc, so that there is more passing.
So the question is... Will this slow the cars down as well? Or will they go the same speed with more passing?? And, if they are slowed down, how much slower will they go?

Thanks in advance!

**wesley_w** · 02-22-2008, 05:48 PM

They tested in the off season with a different wing package. During practice last year they were already aware of the problem and knew they would bring different aero stuff this year. I think the tire compound will be different as well.
The way the cars were set up last year, a fast car could hug the bottom of the track and there was no way anyone could go around him. I think the simple reason is the car was flat out and it's simply a shorter distance on the bottom. I don't know if the wings they bring this year will promote more of a slingshot effect which is fun to watch, or what they will have in mind.

Oh, and thank you guys for the comments on my dads photos. He would be very happy that you were looking at them. If only I had put them on the net before he died.

**jumbopackage** · 02-22-2008, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by cyclonedave25

I have a question to those of you who are smart when it comes to Indy cars.
Being at the race last year in Iowa and seeing that there was little passing and such.
I heard that they are changing the wings, etc, so that there is more passing.
So the question is... Will this slow the cars down as well? Or will they go the same speed with more passing?? And, if they are slowed down, how much slower will they go?

Thanks in advance!

I was thinking part of what happened was that they brought their "short track" aero package, which is way more about downforce than speed. When they got to Iowa speedway, they realized it drove more like a speedway, even though it was a short track. All that downforce meant that the cars handled really well, and that the fast guys could stay down on the bottom of the track. I think they are going to bring back the "fast" package, which means the cars will run faster, and they should be able to do a lot more passing, since everyone will be having to find that magic combination of handling characteristics, and cars might run better (i.e. faster) on different lines.