Was it too much for Jared Allen

mwitt · 04-24-2008, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneG

It amazes me that first round draft picks can get such great contracts without having ever played a single down in the NFL while a proven veteran plays his way into a good contract and people complain about the veteran getting the money and not the rookie.

I think rookies are overpaid and veterans are underpaid.

That would have been my point, yes. This NFL draft system is kind of messed up.

clone52 · 04-24-2008, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Aclone

It's called, "Don't Post".

Two words: Herschel Walker.

Yes, I know that if he keeps his nose clean, it's a good deal. But trading up in the first round, say, for Vernon Gholston would not only have given them someone without two strikes on them,. but with five less years on the clock as well.

Not only that, but you have a young star in Adrian Peterson with a limited shelf life--running backs don't last long. I sure as heck would have held onto draft picks to shore up the mediocre right side of the offensive line--not to mention the potentiual problems at center.

The more and better opportunities Peterson has, the better it is for the team.

Why would you want to waste AP's limited shelf life with risky offensive line draft picks. What makes you think they are going to find better picks than Cook? Its not like the line was so bad that AP couldn't find any running room. I would much rather take a proven commondity who can fix a glaring need.

Aclone · 04-24-2008, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by clone52

I'm stunned that more people aren't in love with the move. In fact, I think its a good move for both teams.

The only saving grace is that while it guts a daft that could have given us four (or more) eventual new starters, at least it won't impact the 2009 dreaft. :eep:

A pass rush is the biggest need on this team, by far. This pick adds that. The Vikings potentially have the best defense in the league now.

Sure, it only leaves the strongside linebacker, strongside defensive end and safeties (save an aging Darren Sharper) as positions without outstanding/pro bowl level players. Oh yeah--and depth at corner.

As for the perceived weak offense, I think thats overblown. Sure, Jackson makes mistakes. But he also showed in could go a few games in a row without making the dumb mistakes.

I wasn't even beginning to talk about Tavaris, I'm quite willing to give him another year to settle in. But do you really think that Rice and Berrian ae enough at wideout? Satisfied with Shiancoe at tight end? Cook and Herrera on the right side--when you have the most dynamic back in the game looking for holes? Anyone notice that Birk is not only getting older--but having fits about his contract?

And, did you notice that Allen is working on his third strike? As hyperaware as the Vikings are about character issues since the boat party, I am shocked that they made this trade.

drmwevr08 · 04-24-2008, 12:50 PM

Anyone even bringing up the Herschel deal is either dull or a Viking hater. Did they give to much for Allen, time will tell. I think no becuase as many have said, to try to draft someone who will make as big an impact, and do it quickly, is very tough. Most importantly, the Vikes gave 8 picks and 5 guys to Dallas for 4 picks and 1 guy. The scope and duration of the entire damn thing are not even freaking close. You may as well start comparing it to the Babe Ruth deal or Vlade for Kobe.

Aclone · 04-24-2008, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by drmwevr08

Anyone even bringing up the Herschel deal is either dull or a Viking hater.

Well, let's see. I've got an IQ over 130, and have been a huge and ever loyal Vikings fan since the days of Francis Asbury Tarkenton. Don't be an a...err, insulting.

Most importantly, the Vikes gave 8 picks and 5 guys to Dallas for 4 picks and 1 guy. The scope and duration of the entire damn thing are not even freaking close.

That's merely a matter of scale. Is it really a positive, when this team has so many holes (and drafted so well in the first three rounds in '07) to give up three potential starters for one? Especially given the potential suspension issues and immense addition to the payroll?

If Allen has twenty sacks, keeps his nose clean, and plays for the Vikes for six or seven years, I won't complain.

But tell me...sure, there are three Pro Bowlers. But who is going to fill Udeze's spot? And have you noticed that Pat Williams is getting up there (he'll turn 36? Tuba would have been nice) And how soon before Kevin Williams wants a contract matching Edwards' megabucks?

drmwevr08 · 04-24-2008, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Aclone

Well, let's see. I've got an IQ over 130, and have been a huge and ever loyal Vikings fan since the days of Francis Asbury Tarkenton. Don't be an a...err, insulting.

That's merely a matter of scale. Is it really a positive, when this team has so many holes (and drafted so well in the first three rounds in '07) to give up three potential starters for one? Especially given the potential suspension issues and immense addition to the payroll?

If Allen has twenty sacks, keeps his nose clean, and plays for the Vikes for six or seven years, I won't complain.

But tell me...sure, there are three Pro Bowlers. But who is going to fill Udeze's spot? And have you noticed that Pat Williams is getting up there (he'll turn 36? Tuba would have been nice) And how soon before Kevin Williams wants a contract matching Edwards' megabucks?

None of which makes it any more similar to the Herschel deal. I didn't say that you had to like it, or that you couldn't find faults in the reasoning.

Congrats on your big...........IQ

Clone9 · 04-24-2008, 01:20 PM

I agree that draft picks are overrated. I mean, what percentage of draft picks actually turn into meaningful contributors in the NFL? I know the draft is important to build franchises and keep a steady feed of players into the system, but I think the Vikes are saying that they think they can win NOW, and I happen to agree. The biggest question mark is QB, obviously, but if TJ can just manage the team a la Dilfer or some other less than stellar QBs to win SBs, then I think we'll be fine. A-Pet ran WILD with the same O-line we have this year, so there's obviously not too much of a problem there. And the D was freakin' awesome last year, and has only gotten better. I just hope TJ is up to the challenge, and that we can get enough out of him and the WRs to make it happen within the next 2-3 years!

ISUFan22 · 04-24-2008, 01:21 PM

WTF? IQ scores play a role in internet discussions about sports? News to me!

Anywho...I think they overpaid, looking at the situation today. Not only do the Vikes have a few needs that could've been addressed with the picks (and instead they addressed just one) but Allen has not shown he's worth all of that just yet.

In a couple years - it could obviously look like a genius move. But it was a pretty large risk. Gotta take 'em to win though.

jdoggivjc · 04-24-2008, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by drmwevr08

None of which makes it any more similar to the Herschel deal. I didn't say that you had to like it, or that you couldn't find faults in the reasoning.

Congrats on your big...........IQ

What makes it similar to the Herschel deal is that the Vikings may have once again paid way too much for someone who could very well end up a bust. Sure, they didn't completely bankrupt their future with this one like they did with Herschel, but if Allen ends up doing nothing they may end up missing those three draft picks. Like they say, those that don't learn from history...

Aclone · 04-24-2008, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by drmwevr08

None of which makes it any more similar to the Herschel deal. I didn't say that you had to like it, or that you couldn't find faults in the reasoning.

It's not simliar to the Herschel deal in terms of quantity. I'm concerned that it's similar to the Herschel deal in the manner that Walker had one decent season, not nearly what was hoped for, then pretty much disappeared. Edwards doesn't exactly remind me of a young Jevon Kearse--not to mention the character issues.

Congrats on your big...........IQ

Ego? Hey, I wouldn't have mentioned it had you not been so clearly insulting.

ISUFan22 · 04-24-2008, 01:24 PM

But mom! I would not have pushed Johnny down the stairs had he not sneezed on me!

drmwevr08 · 04-24-2008, 01:31 PM

If someone wants to say that was a bad deal, this is a bad deal, ok, I suppose. But to me the size and scope (especially that HW took out 4 years of drafts essentially) make it pretty sketchy. Like comparing a bug bite to a bullet hole. I did say a few days ago on one post or another (the Vikes dont usually get quite this much love around here) that I was not in favor of the 2 third rounders. 1 and 3 was fine, jumping it up and paying him so much make me very nervous, but I'm hopeful.

Aclone · 04-24-2008, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

But mom! I would not have pushed Johnny down the stairs had he not sneezed on me!

Umm...would you rather I told you what my IQ really is?

The fact is that demeaning me because of my comparison was hardly a fair shot...and everyone seems to be totally ignoring thst fact.

The truth is, I don't think it's a good deal, not merely because of the risk of the investment, both in draft picks and financially, but because of character issues. That's my opinion, and there's no reason to say that I'm either "dull" or a Viking hater because of it.

Of course, I haven't yet been impressed with Brad Childress. Perhaps this will illustrate something, one way or another.

mwitt · 04-24-2008, 01:39 PM

No need to let insecurities take over an otherwise good thread.

ISUFan22 · 04-24-2008, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Aclone

Umm...would you rather I told you what my IQ really is?

Where is the "couldn't care less" button?

Originally Posted by Aclone

The fact is that demeaning me because of my comparison was hardly a fair shot...and everyone seems to be totally ignoring thst fact.

It was a comment, either hold onto it forever and turn this into pages and pages of poo-flinging monkeys or let the damn thing go.

Originally Posted by Aclone

The truth is, I don't think it's a good deal, not merely because of the risk of the investment, both in draft picks and financially, but because of character issues. That's my opinion, and there's no reason to say that I'm either "dull" or a Viking hater because of it.

We agree on this.

Originally Posted by Aclone

That's my opinion, and there's no reason to say that I'm either "dull" or a Viking hater because of it.

That wasn't the point of the comment. The point was you compared it to one of the all-time blunders in the NFL (Thanks be to the Vikings. Signed, The Dallas Cowboys). In fact, I believe Walker walked (ha!) into a no-win situation with all that was given up to acquire him. Granted, hindsight does play a role into that - but still - he would've had to led the team to some serious wins with some major yardage to pay that one off. The fact that he disappeared just made the situation 100x worse.

This just isn't nearly that big of a deal. You're right in the fact of stating the Walker deal was a huge risk and this is a risk as well, but the severity of the risk between the two is far, far different.