Santo up for the hall again

[San Francisco Cy]

You love him when things go well but I can't stand his whining when things are not going well. Stresses me out!!

YouTube - Baseball great Ron Santo & Diabetes--INCREDIBLE Story

I agree. He gets so down when things go bad, but he's fun to listen to when things are going well. Or when games are out of hand and he and Pat get off onto some tangent. They are a good team together...

[pyrocyz]

I will admit that I have no clue as to the answer to this question, but has the Veterans Committee ever elected a former player into the HOF??

Thanks in advance

[Aclone]

Oh give me a break. Get past your cardinal bias and just look at the stats. Show us some actual literature that says the world series is an edge before you start spewing your cardinal crap.

Just because it says in my profile that I'm a Cardinal fan, you respond like a prodded Hawk ******,*******...

Edit: Several of my best friends are Cub fans. Get over your prejudices.

[acrozier22]

Just because it says in my profile that I'm a Cardinal fan, you respond like a prodded Hawk ******,********...

Edit: Several of my best friends are Cub fans. Get over your prejudices.

So are you a cardinal fan? I mean, if you are, I can see why you wouldn't want to say you are one with the way they are playing.

What's with the ******* comment? I asked for some references with your world series statement? You have anything? Nope, just shooting from the hip, huh? Some people bring facts to the table, while others just making statements without really knowing any factual information.

I'm not going to lower myself to your level by making personal attacks.

[Aclone]

I'm not going to lower myself to your level by making personal attacks.

Here's a clarifucation for you, Mr. High and Mighty "I didn't say "cardinal crap" as an instigator...

I didn't say you are a *******, I said you were being a *******.

Now, if you don't know that a player with borderline career stats can make it into the HOF because he has several appearances in the World Series, especially starring ones, then I'm writing you off as uneducatable. That's just common sense. If you're just being obstinate, and being picky with wordplay, then you're a loss in the first place.

Frankly, I suspect that it's the latter, since you were asking for literature suggesting that World Series "officially" helped. And that's just being obnoxious, since we all know it isn't true, and HOF admission has no set in stone admission standards in the first place. It's all subjective. If I have somehow misunderstood your original question, I apologize.

So please, feel free to stop being a *******, including your second sneering shot at the Cardinals (I haven't made a single disparaging comment about either the Cubs OR Santo), and act like a reasonable, adult person--and a fellow Cyclone fan.

[superdorf]

I was saying that where stats are borderline HOF material, World Series are an edge. A tiebreaker, if you will.

Odd that playing all those years in Wrigley, Santo's numbers weren't inflated.

Oh wait--they probably were. And are still borderline HOF. Maybe that's what every HOF voter has been seeing all of these years.

(I haven't made a single disparaging comment about either the Cubs OR Santo),

Saying his numbers were inflated by playing in Wrigley are kind of disparaging... don't cha think?

[acrozier22]

Here's a clarifucation for you, Mr. High and Mighty "I didn't say "cardinal crap" as an instigator...

I didn't say you are a *******, I said you were being a *******.

Now, if you don't know that a player with borderline career stats can make it into the HOF because he has several appearances in the World Series, especially starring ones, then I'm writing you off as uneducatable. That's just common sense. If you're just being obstinate, and being picky with wordplay, then you're a loss in the first place.

Frankly, I suspect that it's the latter, since you were asking for literature suggesting that World Series "officially" helped. And that's just being obnoxious, since we all know it isn't true, and HOF admission has no set in stone admission standards in the first place. It's all subjective. If I have somehow misunderstood your original question, I apologize.

So please, feel free to stop being a *******, including your second sneering shot at the Cardinals (I haven't made a single disparaging comment about either the Cubs OR Santo), and act like a reasonable, adult person--and a fellow Cyclone fan.

So your comment about Santo's stats being inflated weren't disparaging? I'm not looking for official literature, I'm just looking for something to support your comment. Quite frankly, you don't have anything yet.

Keep calling me a ******* or say that I'm acting like a *******. Whatever makes you feel better.

[superdorf]

My take is that the crusty old veterans know how much this really does mean to Santo, and they will wait till he is dead to vote him in...

Pat Hughes, the play-by-play voice of the Cubs, knows more about baseball than maybe any other human on the planet... Obviously, he is GREAT friends with Ronnie, but I believe he is a man of great integrity, if Pat thinks Ron deserves to be in ... then he should be in.

[acrozier22]

My take is that the crusty old veterans know how much this really does mean to Santo, and they will wait till he is dead to vote him in...

Pat Hughes, the play-by-play voice of the Cubs, knows more about baseball than maybe any other human on the planet... Obviously, he is GREAT friends with Ronnie, but I believe he is a man of great integrity, if Pat thinks Ron deserves to be in ... then he should be in.

But it's more than Pat Hughes. Peter Gammons and Rob Neyer, two highly respected baseball writers, have both said it's a shame he hasn't been voted in by now.

[mplscyclone]

He doesn't belong in the HOF. Perhaps in a Cubs HOF or something but not an MLB HOF.

He's someone who basically averaged 25HR and 90+RBI his whole career, coming from a power hitting position (3b).

He's like a Torri Hunter or Adrian Beltre if you look at his stats.

When you look at the Hall of Fame, did anyone ever say "Ron Santo is arguabley the best third basemen in the game right now?" while he was playing? Or did people say "Ron Santo was good, and one of the best players on the Cubs right now?"

I'm guessing the later. Enough said!

[superdorf]

He doesn't belong in the HOF. Perhaps in a Cubs HOF or something but not an MLB HOF.

He's someone who basically averaged 25HR and 90+RBI his whole career, coming from a power hitting position (3b).

He's like a Torri Hunter or Adrian Beltre if you look at his stats.

When you look at the Hall of Fame, did anyone ever say "Ron Santo is arguabley the best third basemen in the game right now?" while he was playing? Or did people say "Ron Santo was good, and one of the best players on the Cubs right now?"

I'm guessing the later. Enough said!

You are wrong in every account. You can't put a player from the 60's against a player from today... It doesn't work...

I guess Mickey Mantle wasn't a hall-of-famer either then?

[acrozier22]

He doesn't belong in the HOF. Perhaps in a Cubs HOF or something but not an MLB HOF.

He's someone who basically averaged 25HR and 90+RBI his whole career, coming from a power hitting position (3b).

He's like a Torri Hunter or Adrian Beltre if you look at his stats.

When you look at the Hall of Fame, did anyone ever say "Ron Santo is arguabley the best third basemen in the game right now?" while he was playing? Or did people say "Ron Santo was good, and one of the best players on the Cubs right now?"

I'm guessing the later. Enough said!

You can't compare stats to today's players. He was one of the best at his position all time and he was the best when he played.
ESPN.com: MLB - Santo's Hall credentials tough to overlook

[Aclone]

Saying his numbers were inflated by playing in Wrigley are kind of disparaging... don't cha think?

No. It's being honest. I wasn't running anyone down at all. Just being accurate.

Unless you're going to claim that the stats of any player who plays more than half his games in hitter-friendly parks (not just Wrigley) aren't inflated?

Should we count all the homers hit by Rockies batters as HOF material-- especially before the Humidor? Or do we figure that the numbers are skewed a bit...or, in the case of Coors Field, substantially?

[superdorf]

No. It's being honest. I wasn't running anyone down at all. Just being accurate.

Unless you're going to claim that the stats of any player who plays more than half his games in hitter-friendly parks (not just Wrigley) aren't inflated?

Should we count all the homers hit by Rockies batters as HOF material-- especially before the Humidor? Or do we figure that the numbers are skewed a bit...or, in the case of Coors Field, substantially?

Santo played in won of the greatest pitching era's EVER. How many pitchers who played from 1960-1974 were inducted into the HOF?

Now, how many third basemen?

[acrozier22]

No. It's being honest. I wasn't running anyone down at all. Just being accurate.

Unless you're going to claim that the stats of any player who plays more than half his games in hitter-friendly parks (not just Wrigley) aren't inflated?

Should we count all the homers hit by Rockies batters as HOF material-- especially before the Humidor? Or do we figure that the numbers are skewed a bit...or, in the case of Coors Field, substantially?

So are you saying that anyone that plays for the cubs, red sox, rockies, etc... should have to have their stats watered down because of where they played? That doesn't make any sense. All of those players still play 81 games on the road as well. They face the same pitching and hitters in Wrigley deal with the wind blowing in more than it's blowing out. Everyone forgets about how the wind blows in at Wrigley, they assume it's always blowing out.