Please explain these rules

**Dave19642006** · 02-20-2009, 11:22 AM

Why does a hitter not get charged with a "At Bat" for a "Sacrifice" fly?

When a defender is saddled with an error for prolonging a plate appearance because he dropped a foul pop, why is the hiter not charged with an at bat?

Why is a score irrelevant for a pitcher to qualify for a three inning save?

When can a double play not be pressumed? If a middle man makes an errant throw, or if the first baseman drops an easy toss that renders the batter safe, the scorer cannot charge an error. Were the bases empty, its an "E" all the way. Not only does this failure to execute a routine play artificially pad fielding percentages, it can also unfairly inflate a pitchers "ERA".

Why does a catcher get credit for a putout when he recieves a third strike?

**IcSyU** · 02-20-2009, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Dave19642006

Why does a hitter not get charged with a "At Bat" for a "Sacrifice" fly?

When a defender is saddled with an error for prolonging a plate appearance because he dropped a foul pop, why is the hiter not charged with an at bat?

Why is a score irrelevant for a pitcher to qualify for a three inning save?

When can a double play not be pressumed? If a middle man makes an errant throw, or if the first baseman drops an easy toss that renders the batter safe, the scorer cannot charge an error. Were the bases empty, its an "E" all the way. Not only does this failure to execute a routine play artificially pad fielding percentages, it can also unfairly inflate a pitchers "ERA".

Why does a catcher get credit for a putout when he recieves a third strike?

Funny, all questions I asked after the umpiring exam.

**TarHeelHawk** · 02-20-2009, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dave19642006

Why does a hitter not get charged with a "At Bat" for a "Sacrifice" fly?

When a defender is saddled with an error for prolonging a plate appearance because he dropped a foul pop, why is the hiter not charged with an at bat?

Why is a score irrelevant for a pitcher to qualify for a three inning save?

When can a double play not be pressumed? If a middle man makes an errant throw, or if the first baseman drops an easy toss that renders the batter safe, the scorer cannot charge an error. Were the bases empty, its an "E" all the way. Not only does this failure to execute a routine play artificially pad fielding percentages, it can also unfairly inflate a pitchers "ERA".

Why does a catcher get credit for a putout when he recieves a third strike?

1. Maybe because the batter is "trying" to sacrifice himself for the team, to drive the run in. Who knows what would have happened had he actually been trying to hit it somewhere other than in the air to the outfield.

I believe walks are scored the same way - they count as a plate apperance, but not an at-bat, because who knows what would have happened had the player put the ball in play? Hypothetically speaking.

2. Because he caught the ball. Sounds stupid, but I think thats why.

Can't help you on the other 3.

**IcSyU** · 02-20-2009, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by TarHeelHawk

1. Maybe because the batter is "trying" to sacrifice himself for the team, to drive the run in. Who knows what would have happened had he actually been trying to hit it somewhere other than in the air to the outfield.

2. Because he caught the ball. Sounds stupid, but I think thats why.

Can't help you on the other 3.

#2 is right...same with the first baseman getting the putout on a groundout, etc.

**sodakjoe** · 02-20-2009, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Dave19642006

Why does a hitter not get charged with a "At Bat" for a "Sacrifice" fly?

When a defender is saddled with an error for prolonging a plate appearance because he dropped a foul pop, why is the hiter not charged with an at bat?

Why is a score irrelevant for a pitcher to qualify for a three inning save?

When can a double play not be pressumed? If a middle man makes an errant throw, or if the first baseman drops an easy toss that renders the batter safe, the scorer cannot charge an error. Were the bases empty, its an "E" all the way. Not only does this failure to execute a routine play artificially pad fielding percentages, it can also unfairly inflate a pitchers "ERA".

Why does a catcher get credit for a putout when he recieves a third strike?

1. For the same reason Sacrifice Bunts don't count against your batting average. The batter goes to the plate with the intent of causing an out.

2. Not sure on this one...

3. Because the save is a "statistic" of overly inflated importance. It's actually pretty meaningless.

4. One batter = one out. Anything else is a bonus. You can never assume that you're going to get more than one out per batter.

5. Because he caught the ball.

**Dave19642006** · 02-20-2009, 11:38 AM

Maybe I need to ask "Ask the Umps", on KxNO on Wednesday's

**mj4cy** · 02-20-2009, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Dave19642006

Why does a hitter not get charged with a "At Bat" for a "Sacrifice" fly?

When a defender is saddled with an error for prolonging a plate appearance because he dropped a foul pop, why is the hiter not charged with an at bat?

Why is a score irrelevant for a pitcher to qualify for a three inning save?

When can a double play not be pressumed? If a middle man makes an errant throw, or if the first baseman drops an easy toss that renders the batter safe, the scorer cannot charge an error. Were the bases empty, its an "E" all the way. Not only does this failure to execute a routine play artificially pad fielding percentages, it can also unfairly inflate a pitchers "ERA".

Why does a catcher get credit for a putout when he recieves a third strike?

Should ask those to Timmy MAc on umps eye view next week.

**Clone_12** · 02-20-2009, 11:54 AM

Why do they keep track of an outfielders fielding percentage, when they take take wrong routes to balls, and misjudge flyballs, or lose them in the sun and not get charged for errors...but if a guy hits a screamer on the ground at an infielder that takes an inconveniant hop and the guy boots it, it's an error...

Nothing annoyed me more in high school than listening to outfielders brag about how few errors they had commited.

**jdoggivjc** · 02-20-2009, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dave19642006

1. Why does a hitter not get charged with a "At Bat" for a "Sacrifice" fly?

2. When a defender is saddled with an error for prolonging a plate appearance because he dropped a foul pop, why is the hiter not charged with an at bat?

3. Why is a score irrelevant for a pitcher to qualify for a three inning save?

4. When can a double play not be pressumed? If a middle man makes an errant throw, or if the first baseman drops an easy toss that renders the batter safe, the scorer cannot charge an error. Were the bases empty, its an "E" all the way. Not only does this failure to execute a routine play artificially pad fielding percentages, it can also unfairly inflate a pitchers "ERA".

5. Why does a catcher get credit for a putout when he recieves a third strike?

1. I think it's a "reward" (or at the very least to not punish) for the batter giving up a chance to improve his stats in order to help out his team by advancing or scoring a runner. Whatever the case, it's the same reason why sacrifice bunts don't count against the average, either.

2. I think this is the exact opposite of 1 - to not reward a batter for a situation in which he should have been out (although I've never heard this rule before).

3. Probably because how often do you see a reliever go 3 innings to get a save? The only time I've ever seen a reliever go more than 3 innings is when he is trying to eat innings for a pitcher that had a bad day very early. I can't remember the last time a closer ever went more than 2 to get a save. It's probably a statistical reward for relief pitchers that do something that relief pitchers were not intended to do (most relief pitchers will either face a particular batter and leave the game or eat an inning or two to set up the closer - that's it).

4. I think it's because the duty of a defense is to get one out on any given play - the second out is treated as a bonus. By getting that first out the defense statistically did its job, and getting the second out in a double play is above and beyond.

5. As everyone else said, because he caught the ball. If the catcher drops the ball on strike 3, the runner can advance to first base. The catcher then has to throw the ball to first to get the put out, in which case the first baseman gets the put out.

**jdoggivjc** · 02-20-2009, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Clone_12

Why do they keep track of an outfielders fielding percentage, when they take take wrong routes to balls, and misjudge flyballs, or lose them in the sun and not get charged for errors...but if a guy hits a screamer on the ground at an infielder that takes an inconveniant hop and the guy boots it, it's an error...

Nothing annoyed me more in high school than listening to outfielders brag about how few errors they had commited.

First, I think you're completely overblowing the situation. If an outfielder boots a ball, they're going to get called for an error, just like any infielder. Second, you make it sound like every single "screamer" that gets booted by an infielder automatically gets called for an error, when that simply is not the case. I've seen situations in games when a routine ground ball hits something in the infield become unfieldable because it hops up to practically hit the fielder in the face get called an "infield hit". Third, if you want virtually every single play that an outfielder doesn't make to be called an error, then likewise, virtually every single grounder that gets hit out of the infield should be called an error as well.

**ISUpike33** · 02-20-2009, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

1. I think it's a "reward" (or at the very least to not punish) for the batter giving up a chance to improve his stats in order to help out his team by advancing or scoring a runner. Whatever the case, it's the same reason why sacrifice bunts don't count against the average, either.

2. I think this is the exact opposite of 1 - to not reward a batter for a situation in which he should have been out (although I've never heard this rule before).

3. Probably because how often do you see a reliever go 3 innings to get a save? The only time I've ever seen a reliever go more than 3 innings is when he is trying to eat innings for a pitcher that had a bad day very early. I can't remember the last time a closer ever went more than 2 to get a save. It's probably a statistical reward for relief pitchers that do something that relief pitchers were not intended to do (most relief pitchers will either face a particular batter and leave the game or eat an inning or two to set up the closer - that's it).

4. I think it's because the duty of a defense is to get one out on any given play - the second out is treated as a bonus. By getting that first out the defense statistically did its job, and getting the second out in a double play is above and beyond.

5. As everyone else said, because he caught the ball. If the catcher drops the ball on strike 3, the runner can advance to first base. The catcher then has to throw the ball to first to get the put out, in which case the first baseman gets the put out.

My favorite save ever: Last year when Tex beat Baltimore 30-3 a pitcher for Tex earned a save!

**hurdleisu24** · 02-20-2009, 02:33 PM

when you enter with the game and the score is with in 3 runs and you finish it doesn't matter how many runs score after you enter the game. The interesting thing is why it considered a save when its 3 runs?

**josier** · 02-20-2009, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by ISUpike33

My favorite save ever: Last year when Tex beat Baltimore 30-3 a pitcher for Tex earned a save!

Hypothetically, could you have two saves awarded in a game if the starter pitched 3, the first reliever pitched 3, and the second reliever pitched 3? I believe the rules only allow one save per game, but I could be wrong.

**TarHeelHawk** · 02-20-2009, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by hurdleisu24

when you enter with the game and the score is with in 3 runs and you finish it doesn't matter how many runs score after you enter the game. The interesting thing is why it considered a save when its 3 runs?

Because a grand slam would give that pitcher the loss, I'm guessing. Thats why you see the last pitchers in 4-run games credited with a hold.

**cybsball20** · 02-20-2009, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by josier

Hypothetically, could you have two saves awarded in a game if the starter pitched 3, the first reliever pitched 3, and the second reliever pitched 3? I believe the rules only allow one save per game, but I could be wrong.

You have to finish the game to get a save... The one I don't really get is that anyone can blow a save, even in the second inning. Say your team is up 1-0 and your pitcher gets hurt, you come in and give up one run, then pitch four shutout innings... blown save...