Soriano moved down in lineup!

**CYdTracked** · 07-04-2009, 10:51 AM

Well at least for today... Chicago Cubs to move Alfonso Soriano down in order -- chicagotribune.com

Glad Lou is finally opening his eyes that there are better options on the team. Like the quote that he blames himself for not asking for Fox to be called up sooner to play 3B. The I-Cubs have provided a nice boost lately and hopefully guys like Bradley, Soriano, and Fontenot use it as a kick in the butt to get their bats going that these guys have been taking some of their playing time away lately.

**Bobber** · 07-04-2009, 10:58 AM

If the guy was playing well, I'd give him some slack, but he's been so bad they need to move him somewhere else. A home run hitter like that should be deeper in the line up anyway.

Fuld has been playing incredibly well, but that has to cool off sooner or later.

I lke the Cubs prospects with Ramirez coming back.

**mwitt** · 07-04-2009, 10:58 AM

It was obvious after yesterday's press conference that Soriano would be moved down.

How many years does he have left on his deal? That would scare the crap out of me if I were a Cubs fan.

**Bobber** · 07-04-2009, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by mwitt

It was obvious after yesterday's press conference that Soriano would be moved down.

How many years does he have left on his deal? That would scare the crap out of me if I were a Cubs fan.

Sorianos streaky. Always has been. He'll start heating up sooner or later. I've been ready to get rid Lee for a couple years, but am glad they didn't the way he's playing right now.

**DaddyMac** · 07-04-2009, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Bobber

If the guy was playing well, I'd give him some slack, but he's been so bad they need to move him somewhere else. A home run hitter like that should be deeper in the line up anyway.

Fuld has been playing incredibly well, but that has to cool off sooner or later.

I lke the Cubs prospects with Ramirez coming back.

Yes he has, and I'm miffed that he didn't see the starting lineup yesterday. You ride that horse til it bucks you. Soriano's 120mil be damned. He's getting paid no matter what - might as well bench him and win some games along the way. Same goes for Bradley - may as well get Hoff over in right and see what happens.

Noticed Bobby Scales was playing RF the other night for the ICubs. That's the first time I recall seeing that. Wonder if they're not thinking of bringing him back to play some OF if the Cubs deep-3 continue to struggle.

**DaddyMac** · 07-04-2009, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by mwitt

It was obvious after yesterday's press conference that Soriano would be moved down.

How many years does he have left on his deal? That would scare the crap out of me if I were a Cubs fan.

About as long as Greg McDermott has with the Clones

(that's not a slam against GMac.)

Seriously - I think he was signed for 8 at 120Mil, or something like that. Top of my head. And this would be year 3?

**mwitt** · 07-04-2009, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Bobber

Sorianos streaky. Always has been. He'll start heating up sooner or later. I've been ready to get rid Lee for a couple years, but am glad they didn't the way he's playing right now.

I don't think he'll end the year hitting .220, but I also don't think he's going to end up being worth nearly what he gets paid. And certainly not for the next five years.

That's why I don't like long contracts to guys like Soriano. He has become so one dimensional that, when he struggles, he REALLY hurts the team. He doesn't do anything special defensively, he can't really steal bases anymore, and even if he could, his garbage OBP doesn't allow him to ever be on base when he's not hitting well.

**Bobber** · 07-04-2009, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by mwitt

I don't think he'll end the year hitting .220, but I also don't think he's going to end up being worth nearly what he gets paid. And certainly not for the next five years.

That's why I don't like long contracts to guys like Soriano. He has become so one dimensional that, when he struggles, he REALLY hurts the team. He doesn't do anything special defensively, he can't really steal bases anymore, and even if he could, his garbage OBP doesn't allow him to ever be on base when he's not hitting well.

I know different people have been piling on him about his defense, but I don't think he plays half bad out there. He makes some pretty sweet catches at times and has got a good arm.

I agree long term contracts are generally a bad thing, but that's the way the game has shifted. You listen to Ronny Santo and he talks about how they only had 1 or 2 year contracts tops. He'll tell you that players played harder because of that.

**DaddyMac** · 07-04-2009, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Bobber

I know different people have been piling on him about his defense, but I don't think he plays half bad out there. He makes some pretty sweet catches at times and has got a good arm.

I agree long term contracts are generally a bad thing, but that's the way the game has shifted. You listen to Ronny Santo and he talks about how they only had 1 or 2 year contracts tops. He'll tell you that players played harder because of that.

Agreed - I guess I miss these games where Soriano is a defensive liability. Why is he so bad? And constantly ridiculed for it. I've never seen him drop a catch (see Bradley yesterday), and doesn't he generally rank high in defensive putouts? The little "leap" thing is dumb, however.

And the contract thing is spot on. Once you're a guy like Alfonso and a host of other "older" players who get to that last, long term deal... what's your incentive to really go out there and lay it out every day? Not much.

**mwitt** · 07-04-2009, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Bobber

I agree long term contracts are generally a bad thing, but that's the way the game has shifted. You listen to Ronny Santo and he talks about how they only had 1 or 2 year contracts tops. He'll tell you that players played harder because of that.

Wasn't it an 8 year deal? The game hasn't shifted that much. Plenty of teams get by without giving out 8 year contracts. That contract could end up being absolutely crippling.

**mwitt** · 07-04-2009, 11:22 AM

I didn't say he was a defensive liability. I said he doesn't do anything special defensively -- as in, he's not a defensive game changer. When read in context, I was talking about how he doesn't have the type of game where he will be a help to the club when he's not hot with his bat.

**Bobber** · 07-04-2009, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by mwitt

Wasn't it an 8 year deal? The game hasn't shifted that much. Plenty of teams get by without giving out 8 year contracts. That contract could end up being absolutely crippling.

Well there about half way through that thing. That's about all I can say. I don't like it either.

**DaddyMac** · 07-04-2009, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by mwitt

I didn't say he was a defensive liability. I said he doesn't do anything special defensively -- as in, he's not a defensive game changer. When read in context, I was talking about how he doesn't have the type of game where he will be a help to the club when he's not hot with his bat.

I'm not necessarily talking about you mwitt.

Soriano is constantly nailed about his defense - even Brenley has taken shots at him on the air, as do many "experts". And I'm not saying he's not in the grand scheme of things - I am not a baseball guy. I just don't see it, I suppose.

**Bobber** · 07-04-2009, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by DaddyMac

I'm not necessarily talking about you mwitt.

Soriano is constantly nailed about his defense - even Brenley has taken shots at him on the air, as do many "experts". And I'm not saying he's not in the grand scheme of things - I am not a baseball guy. I just don't see it, I suppose.

I agree. He's not an Ozzie Smith, but he certainly plays better than Bradley.

**CycloneErik** · 07-04-2009, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Bobber

I know different people have been piling on him about his defense, but I don't think he plays half bad out there. He makes some pretty sweet catches at times and has got a good arm.

I agree long term contracts are generally a bad thing, but that's the way the game has shifted. You listen to Ronny Santo and he talks about how they only had 1 or 2 year contracts tops. He'll tell you that players played harder because of that.

Exactly. They had to keep playing hard/well to keep their job.

I'm always surprised that these teams fall for the contract year guys, when those happen (see Adrian Beltre). You know, guys that are mediocre to poor year after year, until it's the last year of their contract, and then they magically find their stroke at the plate, their glove in the field, and their groove in the clubhouse. It's incredible, year after year, and these guys keep getting paid.