Rodgers or Favre?

**ClimbIowa** · 10-06-2009, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

As it was, until the 4th quarter - the game was headed to blow-out stage. The Vikes offense went into sleep mode with the play calling and the D (which Favre has no control over) gave up some silly plays.

At any rate - I don't get the purpose of "if the QBs were flipped the game would be..." stuff. The Vikings won. Favre had a fantastic game. Rodgers played ok but did hold onto the ball a bit too long at times, which was made to look worse by the great rush the Vikings were getting.

Favre "held on to the ball too long" much more than Rodgers did, it just so happened that the Packers DL and LBs couldn't generate a single sack or holding call. Favre didn't leave the pocket all night long. Literally.

Rodgers OL is in shambles right now. It's really bad.

**ClimbIowa** · 10-06-2009, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Clones85'

Favre was hit much more that 6 times in that game. I was there. He was constantly getting drilled. And if he would have held the ball all day like Rodgers he would have been sacked 8 times.

How hard is for you to realize that Rodgers is to blame for most of those sacks? In the NFL you can't hold onto the ball for 5 seconds. That safety was 100% Rodgers fault

If you think Rodger held the ball for 5 seconds on most of his sacks you are giving the OL WAY too much credit. The problem is that when you're playing the backup, backup LT the Packers set their TE in the backfield and have the running back and fb in to help block. That means Rodger gets 2-3 options to throw downfield. No QB can consistently throw find open receivers when only 3 guys run a pattern with no viable checkdowns.

The Packers couldn't generate pressure rushing 6 on 6. That means Favre is throwing into almost exclusive man coverage. Rodgers usually had 6 on 4 and still got heat off the end. 4 receivers versus 7 in coverage is far more difficult than 4 wrs versus 5 dbs.

**Clones85'** · 10-06-2009, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by jtd9046

I'm not arguing logic, I'm telling you what has happened. The Packers have gone to max protection, and taking the backs out of the passing scheme. I even said in my post that the Packers ran dump off passes and screens early in the game to limit the rush, and I'll ask again. Where did that go? That IS on the coaching staff. Laughable.

The running backs caught 5 balls yesterday....and the TE's caught 10

**Clones85'** · 10-06-2009, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by ClimbIowa

If you think Rodger held the ball for 5 seconds on most of his sacks you are giving the OL WAY too much credit. The problem is that when you're playing the backup, backup LT the Packers set their TE in the backfield and have the running back and fb in to help block. That means Rodger gets 2-3 options to throw downfield. No QB can consistently throw find open receivers when only 3 guys run a pattern with no viable checkdowns.

The Packers couldn't generate pressure rushing 6 on 6. That means Favre is throwing into almost exclusive man coverage. Rodgers usually had 6 on 4 and still got heat off the end. 4 receivers versus 7 in coverage is far more difficult than 4 wrs versus 5 dbs.

Taking my post a little to literal? Of course not 5 seconds but there were at least 4 sacks where he had plenty of time to get rid of the ball

**Clones85'** · 10-06-2009, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by jhill

Favre was getting sporadic boos in the 4th quarter of the 49ers game, up until he made a miracle pass at the end. He was way off on a lot of his throws during the course of the game. The primary reason he had such a great night last night was he had ALL day to throw. I remember him getting hit once. Favre is still a good NFL QB. Rodgers has the potential to be great.

As for an earlier comment, yeah Rodgers has an overall losing record as a starter. He has started a whopping 20 games. He showed a weakness last year in leading a team from behind late in games. But he was essentially a rookie in terms of experience. And there is no throw that Rodgers can not make, his arm is every bit as strong/accurate as Favre's ever was. The only questions I have about Rodgers are durability and some of the intangibles that Favre showed in his prime.

No question in my mind that the Packers made the correct decision in letting Favre go. His ego turned it into the huge mess that it became.

I was at the 49ers game and he was not getting booed at all. Just not true

As for the comment I bolded. I don't really think that I need to respond to this idiotic statement. Rodgers has a great arm but Favre's is potentially the greatest of all time. At 39 Favre still has a stronger arm than Rodgers

**ClimbIowa** · 10-06-2009, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Clones85'

You have your logic mixed up. If you have a horrible O-Line you need to check down more. You are going to get pressured so keep the D-line honest by dumping it off to your RB. And the last time I checked Ryan Grant is a pretty solid RB

Also I find it laughable that you blame the sacks on the coaching. This is the NFL. It takes those WR's absolutely no time to run 20 yard posts. Especially when you could make the case that the Packers have more speed at the WR/TE position than 90% of teams in the league

The Packers don't run a true checkdown when they have to protect Rodgers. Ryan Grant consistently stays in to block the entire play. You just don't know what you're talking about as it pertains to this Packers team. The Packers don't have more speed than most teams. Jennings can get deep on anyone, but it's not because of blazing speed. Driver is the exact same. James Jones and Jordy Nelson are big bodies that can run, but nothing special. The Vikings and Bears top 3 (maybe the Lions too) would win in a footrace.

Rodgers has been getting pressured since Clifton went down at the start of the second half in week two. He has consistently said that he doesn't want his rbs and te's in to block. He won't say it, but they don't really help that much for one. And the biggest problem is that protecting the qb costs him 2 or 3 receiving options.

**jtd9046** · 10-06-2009, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by drmwevr08

Ok, so even if we assume that the Packers only throwing options are way downfield and take a half hour to develop, does the coach say, "Now hang on to that damn ball, even iff your going to get pummled because we want to show a strong committment to this downfield attack!"
Clearly all the coaches fault.

Cleaver... and making your same assumptions what would his options be? He's in the pocket, all his receivers down field... do you take the sack or try to fit something in and risk and interception? Do you throw the ball away and take a grounding penalty?

I'm just finding this humorous that you guys want to hang Rodgers out to dry, he played well. He made a few mistakes, the fumble and interception were big, but he played well. The Packers will not be successful with the current state of the line.

**ClimbIowa** · 10-06-2009, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Clones85'

Taking my post a little to literal? Of course not 5 seconds but there were at least 4 sacks where he had plenty of time to get rid of the ball

And the Vikings probably went 4 on 6 to get that pressure meaning there are 4 guys running routes against 7 guys in coverage. A qb should get all day to throw when it's 4 on 6. Rodgers never got the type of protection one expects from 4 on 6.

**Steve** · 10-06-2009, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Clones85'

I was at the 49ers game and he was not getting booed at all. Just not true

As for the comment I bolded. I don't really think that I need to respond to this idiotic statement. Rodgers has a great arm but Favre's is potentially the greatest of all time. At 39 Favre still has a stronger arm than Rodgers

It's also not all about arm strength. QB decision making was an important factor in the game last night. Nobody gets it right every time, but Favre made far more correct reads and decisions than Rodgers last night.

**jtd9046** · 10-06-2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Clones85'

The running backs caught 5 balls yesterday....and the TE's caught 10

3 rb catches in the 1st drive, the other 2 coming in the final minutes. And the Packers play a lot of 2 TE sets. One stays into block, the others the seam down the middle.

It's like we didn't even watch the same game.

**cybsball20** · 10-06-2009, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

It's also not all about arm strength. QB decision making was an important factor in the game last night. Nobody gets it right every time, but Favre made far more correct reads and decisions than Rodgers last night.

Favre also got the benefit of one terrible PI call in a huge spot. That interception stands, as it should have, and it's whole other ballgame.

**ClimbIowa** · 10-06-2009, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by jtd9046

3 rb catches in the 1st drive, the other 2 coming in the final minutes. And the Packers play a lot of 2 TE sets. One stays into block, the others the seam down the middle.

It's like we didn't even watch the same game.

If the announcers don't point out things like "hey, look the Packers are consistently lining a te up in the backfield right behind the LT and Ryan Grant is not running any routes", Viking fans are not going to see it. Packers fan look for these things because they've been problems in years past and they've come up again with the Clifton injury.

What I can't figure out is how the Packers were able to get so much pressure on Cutler and then play three games with little to none.

**Steve** · 10-06-2009, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by cybsball20

Favre also got the benefit of one terrible PI call in a huge spot. That interception stands, as it should have, and it's whole other ballgame.

How would it stand since the defense was also offsides on the play? I've also seen more iffy PI calls stand given that there was some illegal contact.

**Steve** · 10-06-2009, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by ClimbIowa

If the announcers don't point out things like "hey, look the Packers are consistently lining a te up in the backfield right behind the LT and Ryan Grant is not running any routes", Viking fans are not going to see it. Packers fan look for these things because they've been problems in years past and they've come up again with the Clifton injury.

What I can't figure out is how the Packers were able to get so much pressure on Cutler and then play three games with little to none.

Didn't the Bears also have 3 new OL starters in that game? The Vikings have also had some pressure up the middle issues with a new center after Birk jumped to the Ravens. Sullivan has been showing progress all season at center and last night was his best outing in pass pro situations.

**jj-cyclones** · 10-06-2009, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Clones85'

Taking my post a little to literal? Of course not 5 seconds but there were at least 4 sacks where he had plenty of time to get rid of the ball

This.

Rodgers has to get rid of the ball sooner than he did last night. Even Jaws (I hate the guy but he was correct) said Rodgers needs to have a clock in his head and get rid of the ball with a good dline that Vikings have.