Big Ten vs. Other Conferences

[SouthernHawk]

I just thought I'd post this for future reference. Basiocally, it shows that the BT has been pretty much dead even with every conference except for the Pac 10, who has a winning record vs. every other conference since 2000.

Anyways.

ACC: 10-10
Big 12: 15-18
Big East: 14-6
SEC: 12-15
Pac10: 16-24

Against non-Pac10 teams, the BT is 51-49. Against all conferences, the BT is 67-74, for a 47.5 winning percentage.

Anyways, I just thought it was interesting. I'll do the Big 12 next.

[CycloneErik]

Originally Posted by SouthernHawk

I just thought I'd post this for future reference. Basiocally, it shows that the BT has been pretty much dead even with every conference except for the good ones.

Anyways.

ACC: 10-10
Big 12: 15-18
Big East: 14-6
SEC: 12-15
Pac10: 16-24

Against non-Pac10 teams, the BT is 51-49. Against all conferences, the BT is 67-74, for a 47.5 winning percentage.

Anyways, I just thought it was interesting. I'll do the Big 12 next.

Fixed it for you

[HGPuck]

Thanks for doing that I find things like this interesting. What it shows me is that they have done very well against the big east, poorly against the pac 10, and slightly less than average against the other three (46%). My only comment would be that in my opinion the big east is the weakest conference of the three and I would be interested to see this done over the last 3 or 5 years as I think most people's opinions of the big 10 being down are based on the last few years.

[MontyBurns]

Originally Posted by SouthernHawk

Basiocally, it shows that the BT has been pretty much dead even with every conference except for the Pac 10

Against non-Pac10 teams, the BT is 51-49. Against all conferences, the BT is 67-74, for a 47.5 winning percentage.

Dead even is a definite term.

Since when is 67 / (67+74) = .500?

You can spin words in order to pretend anything you want -- as you like to do -- but here's a clue: numbers are not spinnable. You'd better stay away from facts and stick to meaningless statements.

[jumbopackage]

I'm assuming you're talking football here, right?

Last year the Big 10 was 7-9 against BCS conferences.

The 7 wins:
Michigan over Florida: solid, and surprising W
Wisconsin over Washington State: One of the "elite" Big 10 teams vs. a 5 win Pac 10 team
Ohio State over Washington: The elite of the elite of the Big 10 vs. 4 win Pac 10 team
Penn State vs. A&M: That's a fairly solid W. Close game, though, and by no means a blowout
Iowa over Syracuse: Two horrible teams, but Syracuse was one of the worst teams in the history of 1A Football last year
Michigan St. over Pitt: Pitt, another bad team last year. 5 wins, and if it wasn't for the crazy upset of WVU, they are a 4 win team.
Illinois over Syracuse: BCS team vs. one of the worst teams in the nation. Hardly surprising


So that's maybe, what, 2 solid wins OOC last year? One of them was a swan song for Lloyd Carr, the other was a squeaker against a mid to bottom tier Big 12 team.

Let's look at the losses:

Tennessee over Wisconsin: Wisconsin finished 4th in the Big 10. Tennessee was around 3rd in the SEC. Pretty comparable positions in conference, and Tennessee wins
Oregon over Michigan: Michigan finished 3rd in the Big 10, Oregon finished 4th in the Pac-10. Oregon DESTROYED Michigan
USC over Illinois: Obviously USC was really good. That being said, two games before this one, Illinois beat the best team in the Big 10 by far. The next week they blew out Northwestern. Finished up #2 in the conference. You'd think they would have put up a bit better of a showing than the debacle that was the Rose Bowl this year
Missouri over Illinois: Same comment as above. Though this game was a lot closer, and Missouri turned out to be quite good, Illinois ended up losing to the second place team in the Big 12.
Iowa State over Iowa: We all know about this one. However, from a neutral standpoint, one of the worst teams in the Big 12 beats a middle of the road Big 10 team that should have still gone to a bowl game.
Oklahoma State over Indiana: Big 12 team is probably better than the Big 10 team, but OK State won only 1 more conference game than IU.
Duke over Northwestern: Northwestern missed a shot at a bowl game by losing to one of the other worst teams in D1A football. And to top it off, they did it at home.
Boston College over Michigan State: BC was a good team last year. Much better than Michigan State. That showed in the final score.
LSU over Ohio State: The "elite" of the Big 10 gets destroyed (again)

I kinda ignored the 4 wins that Big 10 teams had vs. Notre Dame, but if you wanted to pad stats, you could throw those in and make them 11-9 against BCS "conferences".

So, to summarize, the Big 10 won some of the games that it should have, and lost pretty much every game where it was equal to, or worse than the opposition, and even a couple they had no business losing.

I guess my point is that just looking at the records without taking into account the records of opponents that they beat, or at least head-to-head matchups with teams that were of similar standing in their respective conferences, is somewhat misleading.

BCS Conference wins over teams that finished with .500 or better records, by conference:

SEC: 10
Big 12: 8
ACC:8
Big East:4
Pac-10:4
Big 10: 2

I'd say that pretty much sums up the pecking order, in my opinion, last year as well.

I haven't broken it down for years past, but I suspect it's somewhat similar.

[MontyBurns]

Nice post jumbo. I'll save southernhawk the trouble of responding by making his points for him:

• 7-9 is dead even.
• Don't discount that 2 of the 7 wins were against Syracuse. Syracuse is much better than their 3-20 record the past two years indicates.
• Duke should beat Northwestern, despite being 1-11, Duke is really good. This is basketball right? After all, the Big Ten plays an annual Big Ten/ACC Challenge in basketball and it's dead even also.
• USC beat Illinois by 235 points because Illinois "came out flat".
• Ditto for Michigan when Oregon beat them in the "Big House" by 187 points.
• You didn't include all conferences in your analysis. For example, you have overlooked the MAC. There are a lot of Big Ten / MAC nonconference games and the Big Ten dominated the MAC.
• Iowa would have been 12-0 last year but they weren't hungry so last year doesn't count. This year they will be 12-0.
• If you look at games played on odd-numbered days that start between 2pm and 4pm, the Big Ten is 6-5 against 4 of the 6 conferences not counting the best two, which means the Big Ten is really good.

[Cyclone711]

Originally Posted by jumbopackage

I'm assuming you're talking football here, right?

Last year the Big 10 was 7-9 against BCS conferences.

The 7 wins:
Michigan over Florida: solid, and surprising W
Wisconsin over Washington State: One of the "elite" Big 10 teams vs. a 5 win Pac 10 team
Ohio State over Washington: The elite of the elite of the Big 10 vs. 4 win Pac 10 team
Penn State vs. A&M: That's a fairly solid W. Close game, though, and by no means a blowout
Iowa over Syracuse: Two horrible teams, but Syracuse was one of the worst teams in the history of 1A Football last year
Michigan St. over Pitt: Pitt, another bad team last year. 5 wins, and if it wasn't for the crazy upset of WVU, they are a 4 win team.
Illinois over Syracuse: BCS team vs. one of the worst teams in the nation. Hardly surprising


So that's maybe, what, 2 solid wins OOC last year? One of them was a swan song for Lloyd Carr, the other was a squeaker against a mid to bottom tier Big 12 team.

Let's look at the losses:

Tennessee over Wisconsin: Wisconsin finished 4th in the Big 10. Tennessee was around 3rd in the SEC. Pretty comparable positions in conference, and Tennessee wins
Oregon over Michigan: Michigan finished 3rd in the Big 10, Oregon finished 4th in the Pac-10. Oregon DESTROYED Michigan
USC over Illinois: Obviously USC was really good. That being said, two games before this one, Illinois beat the best team in the Big 10 by far. The next week they blew out Northwestern. Finished up #2 in the conference. You'd think they would have put up a bit better of a showing than the debacle that was the Rose Bowl this year
Missouri over Illinois: Same comment as above. Though this game was a lot closer, and Missouri turned out to be quite good, Illinois ended up losing to the second place team in the Big 12.
Iowa State over Iowa: We all know about this one. However, from a neutral standpoint, one of the worst teams in the Big 12 beats a middle of the road Big 10 team that should have still gone to a bowl game.
Oklahoma State over Indiana: Big 12 team is probably better than the Big 10 team, but OK State won only 1 more conference game than IU.
Duke over Northwestern: Northwestern missed a shot at a bowl game by losing to one of the other worst teams in D1A football. And to top it off, they did it at home.
Boston College over Michigan State: BC was a good team last year. Much better than Michigan State. That showed in the final score.
LSU over Ohio State: The "elite" of the Big 10 gets destroyed (again)

I kinda ignored the 4 wins that Big 10 teams had vs. Notre Dame, but if you wanted to pad stats, you could throw those in and make them 11-9 against BCS "conferences".

So, to summarize, the Big 10 won some of the games that it should have, and lost pretty much every game where it was equal to, or worse than the opposition, and even a couple they had no business losing.

I guess my point is that just looking at the records without taking into account the records of opponents that they beat, or at least head-to-head matchups with teams that were of similar standing in their respective conferences, is somewhat misleading.

BCS Conference wins over teams that finished with .500 or better records, by conference:

SEC: 10
Big 12: 8
ACC:8
Big East:4
Pac-10:4
Big 10: 2

I'd say that pretty much sums up the pecking order, in my opinion, last year as well.

I haven't broken it down for years past, but I suspect it's somewhat similar.

Wisconsin is not an elite Big 10 program and never has been. They are in the same boat as Iowa and have a stretch of 2-3 good years every decade.

Am I the only one that is REALLY REALLY tired of people being anti big-10 just because Iowa is in the big 10? WE GET IT. You don't like the big 10. But taking every single statistic and trying to turn it around on the big 10 is quite dumb. Amazingly, you can make statistics say whatever you want them to say. Whoda thunk it? With the way some people talk around here you would think that it was ISU and not LSU that beat Ohio State last year for the National Campionship.

[jbhtexas]

Originally Posted by Cyclone711

Am I the only one that is REALLY REALLY tired of people being anti big-10 just because Iowa is in the big 10?

I'm anti-Big Ten because they apparently can't count. And no, I never grow tired of Big Ten bashing...

[cloneu]

Originally Posted by Cyclone711

Wisconsin is not an elite Big 10 program and never has been. They are in the same boat as Iowa and have a stretch of 2-3 good years every decade.

They have five 9 win seasons in the last 10 years. I would gladly take that and consider those good seasons.

As far as bashing the Big 10, they have been down the last couple of seasons in football and basketball. Maybe it makes us feel better saying our conference is better then Big 10 since we really haven't been able to brag about some of our sports the last couple of years. You have to do something to get through the hard years.

[SouthernHawk]

Originally Posted by jumbopackage

I'm assuming you're talking football here, right?

Last year the Big 10 was 7-9 against BCS conferences.

The 7 wins:
Michigan over Florida: solid, and surprising W
Wisconsin over Washington State: One of the "elite" Big 10 teams vs. a 5 win Pac 10 team
Ohio State over Washington: The elite of the elite of the Big 10 vs. 4 win Pac 10 team
Penn State vs. A&M: That's a fairly solid W. Close game, though, and by no means a blowout
Iowa over Syracuse: Two horrible teams, but Syracuse was one of the worst teams in the history of 1A Football last year
Michigan St. over Pitt: Pitt, another bad team last year. 5 wins, and if it wasn't for the crazy upset of WVU, they are a 4 win team.
Illinois over Syracuse: BCS team vs. one of the worst teams in the nation. Hardly surprising


So that's maybe, what, 2 solid wins OOC last year? One of them was a swan song for Lloyd Carr, the other was a squeaker against a mid to bottom tier Big 12 team.

Let's look at the losses:

Tennessee over Wisconsin: Wisconsin finished 4th in the Big 10. Tennessee was around 3rd in the SEC. Pretty comparable positions in conference, and Tennessee wins
Oregon over Michigan: Michigan finished 3rd in the Big 10, Oregon finished 4th in the Pac-10. Oregon DESTROYED Michigan
USC over Illinois: Obviously USC was really good. That being said, two games before this one, Illinois beat the best team in the Big 10 by far. The next week they blew out Northwestern. Finished up #2 in the conference. You'd think they would have put up a bit better of a showing than the debacle that was the Rose Bowl this year
Missouri over Illinois: Same comment as above. Though this game was a lot closer, and Missouri turned out to be quite good, Illinois ended up losing to the second place team in the Big 12.
Iowa State over Iowa: We all know about this one. However, from a neutral standpoint, one of the worst teams in the Big 12 beats a middle of the road Big 10 team that should have still gone to a bowl game.
Oklahoma State over Indiana: Big 12 team is probably better than the Big 10 team, but OK State won only 1 more conference game than IU.
Duke over Northwestern: Northwestern missed a shot at a bowl game by losing to one of the other worst teams in D1A football. And to top it off, they did it at home.
Boston College over Michigan State: BC was a good team last year. Much better than Michigan State. That showed in the final score.
LSU over Ohio State: The "elite" of the Big 10 gets destroyed (again)

I kinda ignored the 4 wins that Big 10 teams had vs. Notre Dame, but if you wanted to pad stats, you could throw those in and make them 11-9 against BCS "conferences".

So, to summarize, the Big 10 won some of the games that it should have, and lost pretty much every game where it was equal to, or worse than the opposition, and even a couple they had no business losing.

I guess my point is that just looking at the records without taking into account the records of opponents that they beat, or at least head-to-head matchups with teams that were of similar standing in their respective conferences, is somewhat misleading.

BCS Conference wins over teams that finished with .500 or better records, by conference:

SEC: 10
Big 12: 8
ACC:8
Big East:4
Pac-10:4
Big 10: 2

I'd say that pretty much sums up the pecking order, in my opinion, last year as well.

I haven't broken it down for years past, but I suspect it's somewhat similar.

Right, well, if you're going to make a case that the Big Ten has been as weak as you claim since 2000, then you need to do go through and produce the statistics to prove your point, or else your argument is moot.

Yes, last year the BT was realtively down. Nobody is arguing this fact.

But what's surprising is that the BT has a solid record against every conference except for the Pac 10 in the last decade. I'd like to emphasize here for those who can't read (MontyBurns), the BT has been pretty much dead even in OOC games against BCS teams.

In fact, I would be very interested in seeing the break down that you did. Because if I remember correctly, the Big 12 had something like a 20 game OOC losing streak against teams in the Top 25. And teams outside of Texas typically haven't faired well in the OOC.

[MontyBurns]

Originally Posted by SouthernHawk

RiI'd like to emphasize here for those who can't read (MontyBurns), the BT has been pretty much dead even in OOC games against BCS teams.

A win/loss record of 67-74 is not dead even.

Losing a game 13-15 is not playing dead even.

Like I posted, you need to stick to your usual irrelevent comments. Your nonsensical spin cannot change numbers. Numbers are cold hard facts that are not open to interpretation.

[SouthernHawk]

Originally Posted by MontyBurns

A win/loss record of 67-74 is not dead even.

Losing a game 13-15 is not playing dead even.

Like I posted, you need to stick to your usual irrelevent comments. Your nonsensical spin cannot change numbers. Numbers are cold hard facts that are not open to interpretation.

*Cough* Pretty much dead even *cough*

Like I said above, but I'll repeat (please keep up), a 47.5% overall record against BCS conferences is pretty much dead even.

And yes, when a game comes down to a last second field goal, and when statistics are nearly identical, the game is playing dead even (although, I'm not entirely sure what that game has to do with this conversation, but I'll go with it).

[rworkman83]

Originally Posted by SouthernHawk

*Cough* Pretty much dead even *cough*

Like I said above, but I'll repeat (please keep up), a 47.5% overall record against BCS conferences is pretty much dead even.

And yes, when a game comes down to a last second field goal, and when statics are nearly identical, the game is playing dead even (although, I'm not entirely sure what that game has to do with this conversation, but I'll go with it).

I hate when the statics on my tv make the game dead even.

[MontyBurns]

ISU has beaten Iowa pretty much every year for the past 10 years. In their last game, ISU held Iowa to pretty much no yards. Of course it is not surprising that Iowa lost because pretty much their entire team was in jail last year.

[Clone9]

Oh come on, 47.5% is pretty much....we'll give him the averages for the Big 10.

What are Iowa's numbers within that time frame though...especially against non-conference opponents? Just wondering......