Oklahoma State site asked me Q's about Hoiberg/Gottlieb

[cycloneworld]

How is St Johns feeling about the Mullin experiment. It's a crap shoot - ISU got lucky that Fred worked out.

When you only have two data points (Hoiberg and Mullin), its impossible to know if it would work out. I would lean towards no otherwise more schools would be doing it or considering doing it.

There is a reason coaches work their way up through the ranks in 99.9% of the cases.

My opinion is that Gottlieb wants to be a Power 5 coach (yes its his school) without putting in the work to get there - otherwise he'd start where all other coaches do.

 

[cycloneworld]

Also, Iowa State was in the position to take a risk. If Hoiberg tanked, we really couldn't sink any lower since we were at the bottom of the conference anyway.

That's not Oklahoma State. They made the tournament and have pieces coming back. Not worth the risk of falling to the bottom of the conference which would be really easy to do given the strength of the B12.

 

[cycloneted]

I think the biggest difference is, like someone mentioned, Freddy was in the business the whole time prior to ISU, Doug has been in the media business. And not just in the business, but Freddy was involved in operations, management, team building, pretty much everything a collegiate head coach does, except recruiting.

I don't think there's much of a comparison at all.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Fred could sell his NBA connections to recruits. I wonder if Doug could do the same.

But Doug will actually recruit.

Also,?Look at recent political events. Being a known TV/media guy will give Doug instantly as much access being a NBA player a decade ago.

There is a huge difference in their lives after college. Fred played for some of the greatest minds in the game. He sat on the bench, watched film, and worked with these great coaches. He scouted teams. Gottlieb hasn't been around the sport day to day for years. He has never shown any desire to coach unless it is the OSU job. He went from playing to broadcasting. Hiring Fred was a risk, but his background was a lot better than Doug's is. The only similarity is they both played college basketball. I don't think Doug is even an icon like Fred is.

Was a Fred a great coach or had great players?

 

[jcyclonee]

OSU is in the crapper. Evans and Forte gone, coach ran and fans don't show up to games. Now would be the time if there ever was one to try Gottlieb, but I still think it won't work. Not dreamy enough.

It's too bad the fans aren't showing up. OSU has generally been one of the better gameday atmospheres in college basketball.

Also, the biggest difference is the dreaminess.

 

[rholtgraves]

I think the biggest difference as someone pointed out is that Fred was playing for years in the NBA under some great coaches and then worked in an NBA front office so his work was still all about basketball. Gottlieb is an on air personality.

I have no idea if Gottlieb would work but like Fred he would need to first surround himself with some guys who knew what they were doing to be assistants. Lutz was a great hire to help him learn the ropes.

 

[rholtgraves]

But Doug will actually recruit.

Also,?Look at recent political events. Being a known TV/media guy will give Doug instantly as much access being a NBA player a decade ago.



Was a Fred a great coach or had great players?

I bet most high school players aren't familiar with Doug Gotlieb.
He was a great coach.

 

[rholtgraves]

One thing for sure is that Gottlieb would be a passionate promoter of the University. And if they won with him I think they would have great crowds.

 

[FinalFourCy]

I think the biggest difference as someone pointed out is that Fred was playing for years in the NBA under some great coaches and then worked in an NBA front office so his work was still all about basketball. Gottlieb is an on air personality.

I have no idea if Gottlieb would work but like Fred he would need to first surround himself with some guys who knew what they were doing to be assistants. Lutz was a great hire to help him learn the ropes.

Recruits will arguably know Gottlieb better than they knew Hoiberg. Gottlieb's also already close to the AAU scene and likely will not have the distaste for that slimy world that Fred did.

Let's not overlook that Gottlieb's brother is a longtime Pac12 coach and his father was also a coach. He's in many ways ahead of the game compared to Fred. Will his x and o knowledge be as good? I think so, but he can easily hire that if needed.

 

[FinalFourCy]

I bet most high school players aren't familiar with Doug Gotlieb.
He was a great coach.

Wrong. Heck, even him interviewing was national sports news.

And it's certainly more than what we're familiar with Hoiberg. Did Fred even have twitter?

 

[SwirlyBird]

 

[coolerifyoudid]

Recruits will arguably know Gottlieb better than they knew Hoiberg. Gottlieb's also already close to the AAU scene and likely will not have the distaste for that slimy world that Fred did.

Let's not overlook that Gottlieb's brother is a longtime Pac12 coach and his father was also a coach. He's in many ways ahead of the game compared to Fred. Will his x and o knowledge be as good? I think so, but he can easily hire that if needed.

These are the things that keep me from saying that hiring Gottlieb is a horrendously stupid move. Coach's kids often have a really good idea what is needed to be a successful coach because they lived it themselves. There's nothing saying that the kids will have the same talent (Bobby Knight, Eddie Sutton), but the expectations of being a coach shouldn't surprise them.

As arrogant as Doug is, he's been around basketball enough to just dismiss him from being capable to coach. If he surrounds himself with the right staff, it could end up being a really good hire.

That being said, Oklahoma State shouldn't settle for the gamble IMO. They should be able to take a much less risky route with someone much more qualified. They lose a lot, but they are a tournament team and just finished in the top half of one of the top conferences.

Underwood jumping ship to an essentially lateral job after one successful year is probably the scariest past of the equation. I'm not sure how the next potential coach views that as anything but negative.

 

[madguy30]

Pretty sure Gotlieb's first school didn't work out because of drug problems, so we know he likes to party.

 

[FinalFourCy]

These are the things that keep me from saying that hiring Gottlieb is a horrendously stupid move. Coach's kids often have a really good idea what is needed to be a successful coach because they lived it themselves. There's nothing saying that the kids will have the same talent (Bobby Knight, Eddie Sutton), but the expectations of being a coach shouldn't surprise them.

As arrogant as Doug is, he's been around basketball enough to just dismiss him from being capable to coach. If he surrounds himself with the right staff, it could end up being a really good hire.

That being said, Oklahoma State shouldn't settle for the gamble IMO. They should be able to take a much less risky route with someone much more qualified. They lose a lot, but they are a tournament team and just finished in the top half of one of the top conferences.

Underwood jumping ship to an essentially lateral job after one successful year is probably the scariest past of the equation. I'm not sure how the next potential coach views that as anything but negative.

Thank goodness you were not JP. All coaching hires are gambles and ok St has nothing to lose. Their fans bailed long ago and they don't have the weight to hire just anyone.

If he gets good players he'll be fine

 

[ca4cy]

These are the things that keep me from saying that hiring Gottlieb is a horrendously stupid move. Coach's kids often have a really good idea what is needed to be a successful coach because they lived it themselves. There's nothing saying that the kids will have the same talent (Bobby Knight, Eddie Sutton), but the expectations of being a coach shouldn't surprise them.

As arrogant as Doug is, he's been around basketball enough to just dismiss him from being capable to coach. If he surrounds himself with the right staff, it could end up being a really good hire.

That being said, Oklahoma State shouldn't settle for the gamble IMO. They should be able to take a much less risky route with someone much more qualified. They lose a lot, but they are a tournament team and just finished in the top half of one of the top conferences.

Underwood jumping ship to an essentially lateral job after one successful year is probably the scariest past of the equation. I'm not sure how the next potential coach views that as anything but negative.

I think that's their biggest problem..perception. Anybody worth their salt has to wonder about $$ and/or administrative support with Underwood leaving for a middling P5 job. Illinois can pitch recruiting base but aside from that there's not much that makes it look like a step up from Oky State at all unless OSU isn't supporting the basketball program adequately.

 

[Frak]

I think the biggest difference is, like someone mentioned, Freddy was in the business the whole time prior to ISU, Doug has been in the media business. And not just in the business, but Freddy was involved in operations, management, team building, pretty much everything a collegiate head coach does, except recruiting.

I don't think there's much of a comparison at all.

I agree. The thing that Hoiberg had was years in an NBA front office. He knew how to scout talent and put together a team. He saw things in guys like Burton, Hogue, McKay that no one else saw. And he was great at putting a group of "misfits" together and getting them to buy in and play as a team. Will Gottlieb be able to do that? I have no doubt he will be able to recruit decent and he'll put together a staff that can help him gameplan, but it's up in the air whether he can evaluate players and put the puzzle of a roster together.

 

[BoxsterCy]

$$$$$$$$$

Fred should have listened to the Beatles.



#lostcyclonelove

 

[LLCoolCY]

Thank goodness you were not JP. All coaching hires are gambles and ok St has nothing to lose. Their fans bailed long ago and they don't have the weight to hire just anyone.

If he gets good players he'll be fine

The key is getting the players. I doubt most 18 year old potential targets saw Gotlieb play at Okie St especially if they aren't from Oklahoma. They may know him as a talking head on TV not sure that will be a selling point or not. Fred had 10 years playing for multiple teams in the NBA under very good coaches and years as an assistant GM to sell recruits with connections to get them into the league. Royce for instance was very aware of his pedigree when he committed being from MN.

I don't know if hiring Gotlieb would be a good hire or not but it would be interesting. Hoiberg was less of a risk for ISU than Gotlieb would be for OSU. If the AD is only willing to pay ~1 mil a year all canidates will have questions why not go for the home run and give it a try. That was my opinion at CFH hiring and I can see their fans thinking the same way, not that I think it will be as successful.

 

[surly]

Would be wiser to hire 'the mayor' and leave Doug to what he does really well already.

Trivia: Fran recruited Doug to ND.

 

[clone52]

When you only have two data points (Hoiberg and Mullin), its impossible to know if it would work out. I would lean towards no otherwise more schools would be doing it or considering doing it.

There is a reason coaches work their way up through the ranks in 99.9% of the cases.

My opinion is that Gottlieb wants to be a Power 5 coach (yes its his school) without putting in the work to get there - otherwise he'd start where all other coaches do.

Mullin did improve in year 2. To early to say it won't work out with him.