Property Tax Increase

[ArgentCy]

@AgentCy... maybe this will help. Another 4 min video demonstrating the financial power of a traditionally developed city block, vs one that uses the more suburban model. From Brainard Minnesota so something easy to relate to for those of us here in Iowa and the Midwest.

As an aside: this might be especially interesting to those living in places like Ankeny where there is a lot of surburban development, but they also have still have their old Uptown area and now the Prairie Trail neighborhood that use a more traditional development pattern.

I think the important thing to keep in mind is this isn't about what your or I might PREFER....but rather, how does one stack up directly against the other financially despite personal preferences. It is a black and white analysis....personal preference and bias aside. This is dollar and cents:

The video answers your questions. So about half of the problems STEM from the CITY's regulations. Set backs, parking requirements, traffic flow, environmental regulations, etc. So perhaps Strong Towns is lobbying cities to change their zoning but just doing that is not going to change the economics.

Now I also don't think Taco Johns is going to want to go into those attached buildings because they can't get a drive-thru or convenient parking for the customers. They will if they really, really see an opportunity but they obviously prefer the large site.

 

[jbhtexas]

The way it seems to be going here...

 

[capitalcityguy]

The video answers your questions. So about half of the problems STEM from the CITY's regulations. Set backs, parking requirements, traffic flow, environmental regulations, etc. So perhaps Strong Towns is lobbying cities to change their zoning but just doing that is not going to change the economics.

Now I also don't think Taco Johns is going to want to go into those attached buildings because they can't get a drive-thru or convenient parking for the customers. They will if they really, really see an opportunity but they obviously prefer the large site.

Good deal. Feel we are now talking to each other, rather than past one another.

First off, Strong Towns doesn't "lobby". It is a nonprofit that is basically a collection of people interested and concerned about the fragile state of our cities and towns. It is probably best described as a media (or content) outlet. All they do is provide information and content and a forum to discuss these issues. It was started by Chuck Marohn who is a civil engineer who has a master's in city planning.

...and yes a lot of what you laid out is exactly the problem! But people including many in city gov't don't understand this stuff.

 

[ArgentCy]

I'm almost never a fan in people in city governments. They often understand very little and don't care about long-term planning. They often just want something that "looks" good. Zoning laws have created a lot of problems and they hardly ever result in what they wanted in implementing the zoning. We still have large areas of 100+ year old housing they zoned commercial back in the 50's? when zoning became popular. Still mostly residential with a few car lots in the middle which is good for no one.

 

[ArgentCy]

The way it seems to be going here...

I have no idea where Tarrant County is but that is certainly possible. All depends on what the land is worth. See this shack. The sale was all about buying the land and they probably tore the house down.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ramshackle-san-francisco-home-sells-for-12-million-2015-03-27

 

[jbhtexas]

I have no idea where Tarrant County is but that is certainly possible. All depends on what the land is worth. See this shack. The sale was all about buying the land and they probably tore the house down.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ramshackle-san-francisco-home-sells-for-12-million-2015-03-27

It was meant to be a joke about the ever-increasing and sometimes ridiculous property value appraisals in my area.

 

[iowast8fan]

My home’s value in Ankeny went up nearly $50,000 in one year and they didn’t even know I finished the basement too. Our property taxes on a $250,000 house went up to $6000 ($500/month) two years ago. Everyone in my neighborhood had the same experience and all complained. I took advantage of the HUGE jump in value and put it on the market. It sold in 1 day! I moved to Arizona where the same value house has property taxes of $1200/year.

As an added perk, I get to keep watching Hakeem Butler scoring touchdowns for the Cardinals!

 

[ArgentCy]

My home’s value in Ankeny went up nearly $50,000 in one year and they didn’t even know I finished the basement too. Our property taxes on a $250,000 house went up to $6000 ($500/month) two years ago. Everyone in my neighborhood had the same experience and all complained. I took advantage of the HUGE jump in value and put it on the market. It sold in 1 day! I moved to Arizona where the same value house has property taxes of $1200/year.

As an added perk, I get to keep watching Hakeem Butler scoring touchdowns for the Cardinals!

I'm tempted but my job is here. I'd probably go South and East but there are a lot of lower choices. My brother just bought a nice home near the Twin Cities (not knows as a low tax state) and although the home is about 2.3x more than a family home here, he will still pay slightly less in property tax.

 

[cytech]

TIF definitely is a problem, but I'm not sure I follow how your downtown example is "crony capitalism". Because of their density, most cities downtowns are huge cash cows when it comes to collecting property taxes due to the intensity of the built environment. Nothing else within a city's (or metro's) boundaries can compete with it. Cities don't promote downtown development due to some romantic dreams about returning to the past or to give their business community buddies a free lunch. No, they do it because cities are starved for tax revenue and they understand there is no better way to grease those skids...even if the payoff is delayed a few yrs. It isn't marked, but can you locate downtown Des Moines on the map below?

What does price of land per acre have to do with tax and land give aways? Are you trying to say that by giving the taxes away and the land the city is artificially increasing land values of people already located in those areas?

I didn't really see that point originally, but now that you point it out I think you are right that is just another form of crony capitalism taking place in our city centers.

 

[ArgentCy]

Commercial property is going to have a higher value per acre than the whole town or residential areas. Unless you are talking about high rise condos or something.

 

[Bader]

My home’s value in Ankeny went up nearly $50,000 in one year and they didn’t even know I finished the basement too. Our property taxes on a $250,000 house went up to $6000 ($500/month) two years ago. Everyone in my neighborhood had the same experience and all complained. I took advantage of the HUGE jump in value and put it on the market. It sold in 1 day! I moved to Arizona where the same value house has property taxes of $1200/year.

As an added perk, I get to keep watching Hakeem Butler scoring touchdowns for the Cardinals!

Did it sell for more than the appraised value?

 

[CycloneDaddy]

Did it sell for more than the appraised value?

My home in Johnston is currently appraised 22% below market value. Im not complaining but you would think they could do a better job.

 

[ArgentCy]

My home in Johnston is currently appraised 22% below market value. Im not complaining but you would think they could do a better job.

They only "assess" the homes once every 2 years (beginning of odd number years). So it's natural they will be behind in faster growing markets. Plus, they love that discrepancy as it means future tax increases.

 

[capitalcityguy]

What does price of land per acre have to do with tax and land give aways? Are you trying to say that by giving the taxes away and the land the city is artificially increasing land values of people already located in those areas?

I didn't really see that point originally, but now that you point it out I think you are right that is just another form of crony capitalism taking place in our city centers.

I’m not following. Sorry, I don’t mean to be thick-headed. Let me try and clarify.

First off, allowing either a person or an entity to keep more of their own money isn’t “giving taxes away”. It is their own money to start with so nothing is being given away. Unless I’m misunderstanding your original statement, you weren’t referencing a tax subsidy (i.e…redistributing someone else’s tax dollars to them). You can be against both, but I think it is important to make that distinction. I know it matters to me (and probably many others) which type of scenario we are talking about.

Secondly, the per acre values I’ve been referencing are appraisals done at the county level for taxation purposes only. Not market rates based on real estate transactions so this isn’t a case of “price per acre”.

Does that help clarify?

 

[cytech]

I’m not following. Sorry, I don’t mean to be thick-headed. Let me try and clarify.

First off, allowing either a person or an entity to keep more of their own money isn’t “giving taxes away”. It is their own money to start with so nothing is being given away. Unless I’m misunderstanding your original statement, you weren’t referencing a tax subsidy (i.e…redistributing someone else’s tax dollars to them). You can be against both, but I think it is important to make that distinction. I know it matters to me (and probably many others) which type of scenario we are talking about.

Secondly, the per acre values I’ve been referencing are appraisals done at the county level for taxation purposes only. Not market rates based on real estate transactions so this isn’t a case of “price per acre”.

Does that help clarify?

So what I was referring to as tax give away's was my cities reckless use of property tax breaks. It is typical on a new commercial or residential (condos or apartments) to get a 100% tax break on improvements for 10 years, more in the case of some properties. The city has also given away money up front, guaranteed loans.

Then there is all the land that was purchased with federal community development block grant money after the 2008 flood. The city is required if they make money on the sale to turn over the profit to the federal government. Well Cedar Rapids is just giving the lots away from free, to go along with the 10 year property tax breaks.

I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say, so I do understand that keeping more of your money is not a tax give away, but not paying property tax on improvements is a bit much.

I still really don't understand the point you are trying to make on the price per acre point though. Everywhere you go the more densely populated the area, the more value the land will have. If that is all you were trying to say then I would agree with that statement.