So, Big 12 results in 'the dance' ...

[isu81]

I don't think you can read too much into it. Like you already stated, it's all about match ups in the tourney. Many of these games come down to the last shot or two. For example, who is really the better team, Wisconsin or Florida after last night? That game was so close and could have went either way.

Or look at the Michigan- Okie St game in round one. Which team is better? Michigan wins by one point after shooting 70+ % from 3 in the 2nd half of that game. Does that make them the better team? If they play 10 times, it might go 5-5, who knows?

It's too hard to determine in one game. You need to go by using all the data points over the entire season, and in that case, the Big 12 was very good, one of the top two conferences this year, and definitely better than the B1G.

I had B1G friends of mine telling me that the B1G was just as good as the Big 12 this year since they both put 3 teams in the Sweet Sixteen. Really? So putting 30% of your teams in the Sweet Sixteen is as good as putting 21% of your teams in?

There's a lot of debate to be had, that's what makes it fun, but you really need look at the entire season that each conference had. SEC had a few really good teams, and then nothing else. Big 12 was good top to bottom.

B10 folks also point to the head to head against B12. I think 9-3 with a few impressive wins. I think the strength of the B12 is its quality at the bottom/no games off. But it's been tough to argue against the 1-team league stigma when our league outside of Kansas doesn't perform when it counts.

 

[mj4cy]

I think what ISU did to Purdue for that 10 minute stretch was the blue print Kansas used for about 30 minutes. Attack from the top of the key. Kansas just never got in a giant hole and hit their shots much earlier on than we did.

 

[LivntheCyLife]

1) Bill Self has had maybe 2 or 3 teams in 14 years that failed to finish in the Top 20 of Defensive rankings on kenpom.com. The rules changes regarding the shortened shot clock and more focus on calling fouls have resulted in many physical teams not being as good defensively as they learn to adjust their defensive systems.
2) The Big 12 teams have plenty of talent. They have as much as Elite Eight teams Florida, Xavier, South Carolina and Gonzaga. Oregon has some high level recruits and then the big boys of Kansas, Carolina and Kentucky have more as well.

At this time of the year it's about playing aggressive and hitting your shots. Baylor got punched in the face by a more aggressive team and didn't respond and they have a terrible coach who does nothing to help his team win games. At no point did I ever see Baylor try to create offense for Motley, their best offensive weapon. Ridiculous. And West Virginia is a team that is 100% reliant on hitting threes, which they are bad at. They are such terrible shooters that they count on having 20+ more shot attempts in hope of outscoring their opponent because they shoot at such a low percentage. Lots of risk in that style but they have no other choice given their level of talent. They are FAR outperforming their individual talent level.

Amazing how you seem to argue with me and then proceed to tell me Baylor didn't know how to answer when an aggressive defensive team disrupted their offense and that West Virginia was limited because of their talent level.

 

[CyTwins]

I think that's what's called "peaking at the wrong time". If ISU played every game with the focus and intensity they did against KU, they would be a much more accomplished team overall.

In case you're wondering why I'm rooting for Oregon tonight. Case in point

 

[Ctrans]

I maybe old school,but defense wins championships. Does no good to score 100 pts if the other team scores 101 pts. I am glad CSP is trying to emphasis defense.

 

[CycloneErik]

I maybe old school,but defense wins championships. Does no good to score 100 pts if the other team scores 101 pts. I am glad CSP is trying to emphasis defense.

It takes balance. Just ask Virginia. Does no good to hold a team to 40 if you score 35.

 

[MeowingCows]

I maybe old school,but defense wins championships. Does no good to score 100 pts if the other team scores 101 pts. I am glad CSP is trying to emphasis defense.

You need both. We've seen what happens when a tournament team has great defense and no offense that night... They give up only 60-some points, sure, but they also only score 39.

 

[CTTB78]

....I am glad CSP is trying to emphasis defense.

And land top 40 recruits.

 

[acgclone]

The tournament is a crapshoot. It's about matchups and execution, and a little luck.

By your logic, the SEC is the best conference, and the ACC is the worst.

We say this every year but the results are always the same. No team other than KU can advance beyond the Sweet 16, and even KU usually underwhelms.

It's too long of a trend IMO for there not to be some sort of other issue. Our coaches are good. Our recruits aren't ACC level across the board, but they're not bad.

I think our style of play must hinder us in the post season because we always perform well early in the year against other leagues.

 

[Bryce7]

This year same as last year.

 

[nfrine]

At least the police can finish the dorm rape investigation now.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I think that's what's called "peaking at the wrong time". If ISU played every game with the focus and intensity they did against KU, they would be a much more accomplished team overall.

A little salty after the game?

 

[DesMoinesCy]

I think that's what's called "peaking at the wrong time". If ISU played every game with the focus and intensity they did against KU, they would be a much more accomplished team overall.

That is false.

ISU did go 2-4 in its previous 6 games going into Phog Allen, but the Cyclones won 10 of their next 12 games after the win over KU. To answer your question -- Iowa State either peaked against WVU in the Big XII title game or against Nevada in the NCAA Tournament. Both were Iowa State's most complete games of the season.

 

[Die4Cy]

B10 folks also point to the head to head against B12. I think 9-3 with a few impressive wins. I think the strength of the B12 is its quality at the bottom/no games off. But it's been tough to argue against the 1-team league stigma when our league outside of Kansas doesn't perform when it counts.

Perception is a double edged deal.

When Kansas ultimately fails to win a title (and it will happen) perception will be that whoever does will have done so because KU was weaker than expected.

 

[surly]

I guess O finishes off this thread for another year. God is just.

 

[WalkingCY]

We say this every year but the results are always the same. No team other than KU can advance beyond the Sweet 16, and even KU usually underwhelms.

It's too long of a trend IMO for there not to be some sort of other issue. Our coaches are good. Our recruits aren't ACC level across the board, but they're not bad.

I think our style of play must hinder us in the post season because we always perform well early in the year against other leagues.

Pretty sure OU made the final 4 last year and was the only big 12 team to make it there. True, they got destroyed by nova... but last year featured 3 big 12 schools in the sweet 16 again.

Loved KU getting beat last night! Ducks!

 

[cyclones500]

At least the Big 12 didn't have two top-4 seeds bounced in round-of-64, as happened in previous two seasons.

This season was a decent tournament performance, relatively. 2016 produced two Elite 8 teams and one Final Four, so at the top end, it was better than 2017.

And this year definitely was better than 2015. That was a Big 12 Tournament Disaster.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

I would say the tournament went as expected for the Big 12.

K-State won the play-in game.
Oklahoma State was supposed to lose, and they barely did.
Iowa State played to its seed, losing close in the 4/5 game.
West Virginia played to its seed and won a 4/5 game.
Baylor did lose to a 7 seed but made the second weekend, and USC had beaten Duke.
Kansas lost in the Elite Eight.

So only BU and KU didn't play to their seed and they both still made the second weekend with KU making the Elite Eight. I guess maybe "as expected" would have included a Big 12 team in the Final Four but otherwise it wasn't really a bad year or anything.

If you are judging full conference strength then you should consider TCU winning its NIT region as well, including a road win at #1 seed Iowa, without Jaylen Fisher. The Big 12 may not have a ton of elite strength at the top - only Kansas is a top 5 team, I believe - but it is deeper than any other conference in terms of no awful teams and no nights off throughout the regular season.

 

[cygrads]

It takes balance. Just ask Virginia. Does no good to hold a team to 40 if you score 35.

It takes both but sometimes your shots just don't fall and defense is always there.

 

[Rural]

I would say the tournament went as expected for the Big 12.

K-State won the play-in game.
Oklahoma State was supposed to lose, and they barely did.
Iowa State played to its seed, losing close in the 4/5 game.
West Virginia played to its seed and won a 4/5 game.
Baylor did lose to a 7 seed but made the second weekend, and USC had beaten Duke.
Kansas lost in the Elite Eight.

So only BU and KU didn't play to their seed and they both still made the second weekend with KU making the Elite Eight. I guess maybe "as expected" would have included a Big 12 team in the Final Four but otherwise it wasn't really a bad year or anything.

If you are judging full conference strength then you should consider TCU winning its NIT region as well, including a road win at #1 seed Iowa, without Jaylen Fisher. The Big 12 may not have a ton of elite strength at the top - only Kansas is a top 5 team, I believe - but it is deeper than any other conference in terms of no awful teams and no nights off throughout the regular season.

Okie State lost like they did in almost every lose being a sieve on defense.