So is Roy that much better than Self ...
- Thread starter surly
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I agree about Roy. They guy is an ass and he comes off as this down home folksy guy. "Ah shucks." "dadgum" But they guy is a hell of a coach. There is an argument for him as a top 5 all time coach. He didn't win a title at KU but he was pretty close and he didn't have as much talent as he does on his UNC teams.
Well who would you rather ISU play against. Graham or Duval? I would take Graham. Duval is going to be a beast. he reminds me of a Westbrook or Rose(pre-injuries)
I beg to differ on the talent question. I believe Roy's '97 team was the best of the modern era led by Jacque Vaughn, Raef LaFrentz and Paul Pierce.
He had a couple teams like that. But best in the modern era? What is the modern era?
But for the most part his teams at UNC have had far more talent. Take this year for example. They had something like 6 McDAA on the team and that has been the norm for Roy at UNC.
When I think of Ku hoops, the modern era is Larry Brown forward. Ku was not elite before that time.
Well if you are talking about teams since Larry Brown then that team wasn't the best team of the modern era. That is not even close to being true.
Yes, plus Scot Pollard. All 4 played for at least a decade in the league. I think 810 said it was the only college team to have 4 players play over 10 years in the NBA.
The late 90's team has already been mentioned, but his early 2000's teams were loaded with talent. Back to back final fours, but couldn't get past 'Melo and Syracuse in the championship game.
2002 team had:
Drew Gooden - 4 years in the NBA
Kirk Hinrick - 13 years in the NBA (so far)
Nick Collison 13 years in the NBA (so far)
Wayne Simien 3 years in the NBA
Aaron Miles - 10 years in the NBA
Younger j'hawks like to discount Roy in favor of Self. One way of doing that is to minimize his talent back then. In my mind, he had far better players, overall, because, in large part, most weren't one and done. Self's tried to play the Cal game and hasn't been able to do it at UK's level of excellence, nowhere near as well, actually.
No one is minimizing Roy's talent. But look at the McDAAs that Roy has had at UNC. It is the reason he has won titles at UNC; depth of talent. I am not saying the gap is huge. It is small. But a small edge is enough to put you over the top from championship game to championship. I think the only Self team to rival Roy's teams is the year they won it in 2008. Depth of talent. And this has nothing to do with Roy vs. Self. This is UNC Roy vs KU Roy.
Also think there is a very small difference in winning vs not winning some years. When Roy had KU vs. Syracuse. They could have easily won that game. This year, they could have easily lost against Gonzaga.
Well, that's been my observation all along, that it's not Roy it's UNC being a superior basketball school to Ku. His record alone makes that pretty clear, winning as many NCAA crowns alone as Ku has won in its history, three.
It is simply easier to get more talent to UNC. Location, Location, Location. That matters a lot in recruiting. Look at the talent in the ACC compared to the Big 12.
Roy won his first title at Carolina in 2005 at the same age that Self is right now. Until that time he was the coach who couldn't break through. We'll see what Self's resume looks like 12 years from now when he is 66 like Roy is right now. My guess is that it improves.
