TX School Song

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jsb

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I agree 100% on this. If the ISU football team came out and said "we want the fight song to be gender neutral" I would have zero issue with the change even if I can't fathom being offended by the line "loyal sons forever true".

If the Texas players don't want to sing it, don't make them. That's ******* stupid. And it's obvious that many of these Texas boosters are racists who don't give a **** about the players. They just want their silly traditions to endure at all costs.

And I know it was sung at minstrel shows, and while I agree that minstrel shows are racist, I'll go back to my previous point that just because a racist does something, doesn't inherently make it racist.

I mostly agree.

and if the idiot Texas fans really want the song, they’d just ignore the whole thing and I’d bet in a few years everyone would be back to singing it.
 
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Al_4_State

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I think it's more than just this song that the boosters are mad at. Im guessing they are sick of the woke mob and this is the reason they are using to put their foot down. It's all fun in games in life until the guys with the money say enough is enough.

Well given how obviously racist some of these boosters are, they clearly care more about the woke mob than football.
 

cyclone1209

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Well given how obviously racist some of these boosters are, they clearly care more about the woke mob than football.
Last year when Sam Ehlinger was the only player to go over to the sideline to stand for the school fight song (after a loss in October maybe), and everyone else headed to the locker room, I felt at that moment we were going to beat UT in Austin.
 

Drew0311

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Well given how obviously racist some of these boosters are, they clearly care more about the woke mob than football.


I would just say they are putting there foot down. They no longer want to give to an organization or care about it if they are going to cave to everything that the woke mob wants. That song is not a racist song. It's just not. There are other songs that use the same music that are racist. I will agree with that. However, that is not one of them
 
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jsb

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I would just say they are putting there foot down. They no longer want to give to an organization or care about it if they are going to cave to everything that the woke mob wants. That song is not a racist song. It's just not. There are other songs that use the same music that are racist. I will agree with that. However, that is not one of them

shouldn’t the players be allowed to stand up for their beliefs? You may not think it’s racist. But you are white and sheltered. Black people may think it’s racist and shouldn’t have to sing thd ******* song. As far as I can tell no one is saying that they shouldn’t play it, just that the players should be allowed not to stand there to placate a bunch of racists’ nostalgia.
 
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Drew0311

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shouldn’t the players be allowed to stand up for their beliefs? You may not think it’s racist. But you are white and sheltered. Black people may think it’s racist and shouldn’t have to sing thd ******* song. As far as I can tell no one is saying that they shouldn’t play it, just that the players should be allowed not to stand there to placate a bunch of racists’ nostalgia.


I think they should have a meeting and explain the song with the players, explain the tradition of singing it and show them it's not racist and a song the represents the school. Not just declare it racist. That same song is the same song that many black players have sung and stood side by side with white team members and were proud to play for Texas. Only recently did someone try to attach it to race.
 
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jsb

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I think they should have a meeting and explain the song with the players, explain the tradition of singing it and show them it's not racist and a song the represents the school. Not just declare it racist. That same song is the same song that many black players have sung and stood side by side with white team members and were proud to play for Texas. Only recently did someone try to attach it to race.

that seems like a lot of work for a song that DOES have a racist background.
 

BryceC

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I know we don't have a lot of traditions, but I can't imagine giving this much of a crap about a song. They could change the ISU fight song tomorrow and I wouldn't really care.
 

MJ29

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I think they should have a meeting and explain the song with the players, explain the tradition of singing it and show them it's not racist and a song the represents the school. Not just declare it racist. That same song is the same song that many black players have sung and stood side by side with white team members and were proud to play for Texas. Only recently did someone try to attach it to race.

If you have to explain how a song is not racist, then maybe it actually is.
 

ISUKyro

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Good point. Can someone find racist undertones in sweet Caroline so we can stop this faux tradition
I'm new to this, but let me try.

Caroline originates in the Germanic languages and means “free woman.”

So it is just ignoring slave women of that time.
I'll stop now.
 

Lewey24

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I think they should have a meeting and explain the song with the players, explain the tradition of singing it and show them it's not racist and a song the represents the school. Not just declare it racist. That same song is the same song that many black players have sung and stood side by side with white team members and were proud to play for Texas. Only recently did someone try to attach it to race.
By your logic, no one can change their mind in anything. If people were okay with something in the past, that means it has to be okay now.
 

WooBadger18

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While Robert E. Lee was clearly a racist, this particular quote doesn't seem racially charged. What am I missing? I hate siding with the right, but this one really does feel like an overreaction in as much as the amount of racism present in this is pretty similar to the amount of racism that's inherently baked into America in the first place.

Just because a racist does something, doesn't mean that action or statement is racist.
I think the thing that you're missing is what views are Lee and Prather advocating. Because inherent in the statement, "the eyes of x are upon you" is the implication "so you need to act appropriately." Lee and Prather are really saying "you need to epitomize a certain value system and behave in a certain way." They are just saying it in more beautiful and inspiring language. And what would be included in that value system and behavior? Probably things that we would find absolutely abhorrent. @CycloneErik would know more about Lee, and I haven't seen anything on Prather's views on these, but it isn't a stretch to say that they would oppose rights for African Americans and support segregation. So when they make those statements, they are saying "you need to uphold the ideals of the South (or Texas)" and that would include racial superiority and segregation.

I also think we need to ask how closely was it tied to minstrel shows (which I don't know). Because the fact that it was debuted at a minstrel show isn't great. If it was tied to minstrel shows, and was always included in them, that is even worse.

I'm not saying Texas needs to get rid of the song or that the song/phrase can't change meanings or that everyone who is singing it is racist. However, I think there are reasonable reasons to not like the song, not sing it, and advocate for dropping it, and that doing so does not make you part of a "woke mob"
 
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Al_4_State

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I think the thing that you're missing is what views are Lee and Prather advocating. Because inherent in the statement, "the eyes of x are upon you" is the implication "so you need to act appropriately." And what would be included in that behavior? Probably things that we would find absolutely abhorrent. @CycloneErik would know more about Lee, and I haven't seen anything on Prather's views on these, but it isn't a stretch to say that they would oppose rights for african americans and support segregation.

I also think we need to ask how closely was it tied to minstrel shows (which I don't know). Because the fact that it was debuted at a minstrel show isn't great. If it was tied to minstrel shows, that is even worse.

I'm not saying Texas needs to get rid of the song or that the song can't change meanings or that everyone who is singing it is racist. However, I think there are reasonable reasons to not like the song, not sing it, and advocate for dropping it, and that doing so does not make you part of a "woke mob"

I understand your point here, I just think it's drawing some really tenuous strings to the sins of the past. Hitler invented Volkswagen. Driving a Passat doesn't make you anti-Semitic.

And again, I think forcing people to sing it is ridiculous. If someone really feels that it is strongly connected to racism, they should feel no obligation to oblige it.
 

WooBadger18

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I understand your point here, I just think it's drawing some really tenuous strings to the sins of the past. Hitler invented Volkswagen. Driving a Passat doesn't make you anti-Semitic.

And again, I think forcing people to sing it is ridiculous. If someone really feels that it is strongly connected to racism, they should feel no obligation to oblige it.
I edited my comment to include more context. I don't think it changes your comment, but just wanted to give you a head's up.

I guess I disagree that the strings are all that tenuous. I didn't see it the same way as Volkwagen but rather like saying "A country has a responsibility to have living space for its people." Maybe you're using that phrase in a different context and are not using it to advocate for wars of conquest and extermination against your neighbors. But what you're doing is trying to strip the words of the context they were originally used in, and I think that's much harder to do.
 
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CycloneErik

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During the Cuban Missile Crisis, leaders of the U.S. and the Soviet Union engaged in a tense, 13-day political and military standoff in October 1962 over the installation of nuclear-armed Soviet missiles on Cuba, just 90 miles from U.S. shores. In a TV address on October 22, 1962, President John F. Kennedy (1917-63) notified Americans about the presence of the missiles, explained his decision to enact a naval blockade around Cuba and made it clear the U.S. was prepared to use military force if necessary to neutralize this perceived threat to national security. Following this news, many people feared the world was on the brink of nuclear war. However, disaster was avoided when the U.S. agreed to Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev’s (1894-1971) offer to remove the Cuban missiles in exchange for the U.S. promising not to invade Cuba. Kennedy also secretly agreed to remove U.S. missiles from Turkey. History

You realize that he provided deeper history by talking about documents, right?
 

Al_4_State

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I edited my comment to include more context. I don't think it changes your comment, but just wanted to give you a head's up.

I guess I disagree that the strings are all that tenuous. I didn't see it the same way as Volkwagen but rather like saying "A country has a responsibility to have living space for its people." Maybe you're using that phrase in a different context and are not using it to advocate for wars of conquest and extermination against your neighbors. But what you're doing is trying to strip the words of the context they were originally used in, and I think that's much harder to do.

Could be.

Just to compare it to another incident in the news currently, I think McDermott's plantation comment was much more obviously racial than the lyrics of the Eyes of Texas.
 

Cat Stevens

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shouldn’t the players be allowed to stand up for their beliefs? You may not think it’s racist. But you are white and sheltered. Black people may think it’s racist and shouldn’t have to sing thd ******* song. As far as I can tell no one is saying that they shouldn’t play it, just that the players should be allowed not to stand there to placate a bunch of racists’ nostalgia.

Not if they have too much pigment in their skin according to on know nothing
 

CycloneErik

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I think the thing that you're missing is what views are Lee and Prather advocating. Because inherent in the statement, "the eyes of x are upon you" is the implication "so you need to act appropriately." Lee and Prather are really saying "you need to epitomize a certain value system and behave in a certain way." They are just saying it in more beautiful and inspiring language. And what would be included in that value system and behavior? Probably things that we would find absolutely abhorrent. @CycloneErik would know more about Lee, and I haven't seen anything on Prather's views on these, but it isn't a stretch to say that they would oppose rights for African Americans and support segregation. So when they make those statements, they are saying "you need to uphold the ideals of the South (or Texas)" and that would include racial superiority and segregation.

I also think we need to ask how closely was it tied to minstrel shows (which I don't know). Because the fact that it was debuted at a minstrel show isn't great. If it was tied to minstrel shows, and was always included in them, that is even worse.

I'm not saying Texas needs to get rid of the song or that the song/phrase can't change meanings or that everyone who is singing it is racist. However, I think there are reasonable reasons to not like the song, not sing it, and advocate for dropping it, and that doing so does not make you part of a "woke mob"

Where's the Lee quote? I'm feeling lazy about digging through the thread for it.