question 4 you refs/experts out there

**moo-u** · 03-31-2009, 11:14 AM

I have to confess I don't get to watch college WBB much, but last
nite I was watching the game and it struck me that the hooking
that is allowed in the lane was getting rediculous, (Mama Moo
noticed as well) and I was hoping some of you that do a bit of reffing
and/or watches alot of games could comment on this.

I counted at least 4 or 5 times where it was REALLY obvious that
Appel hooked Weiben etc. for an easy lay-up , and maybe 4 or
5 other times when she managed to be a bit more discreet about
it.

She is obviously a great player, but if you tally up just the field goals
and three point plays where it was an OBVIOUS case of hooking
our defensive player, and ignore the situations where it was an
"either way" call, you still easily account for (at least) a quarter of her
points, drastically changing the dynamics of the game.

Like I say, as I get to watch almost no BB of any kind any more,
and I hadn't heard a single person mention it, I was wondering if it is
pretty much allowed anymore, so everybody it sort-of used to seeing
it, OR, if last nite was an example of a player recognizing that it was
being overlooked and thus utilyzing the move more than is usual.

m.

**isucyfan** · 03-31-2009, 11:18 AM

Not to derail your thread, but on a similar note, I can't stand that they allow that "step-through" move in the women's game. They change their pivot foot, which is traveling!! It drives me batty.

**IcSyU** · 03-31-2009, 11:19 AM

It's overlooked. Also, depending on the angle you're watching from, it can be difficult to see. Obviously the referees out top may see it, but the lane isn't their call. A lot of women are guilty of it. Even some of our own do it. The one move I notice it a lot with is when women have their backs to the basket and do a quick spin and throw up a layup from 6 feet away underhand.

Originally Posted by isucyfan

Not to derail your thread, but on a similar note, I can't stand that they allow that "step-through" move in the women's game. They change their pivot foot, which is traveling!! It drives me batty.

You and me both. I HATE that move.

**legi** · 03-31-2009, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by isucyfan

Not to derail your thread, but on a similar note, I can't stand that they allow that "step-through" move in the women's game. They change their pivot foot, which is traveling!! It drives me batty.

I agree with you. Even worst is that in some games it was called as traveling. So you just don't know what you gonna get from ref to ref. It sucks.

**cycopath25** · 03-31-2009, 11:26 AM

"If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying"

**khaal53** · 03-31-2009, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by isucyfan

Not to derail your thread, but on a similar note, I can't stand that they allow that "step-through" move in the women's game. They change their pivot foot, which is traveling!! It drives me batty.

It's not traveling in the women's game. It's also legal for high school girls. I don't know why, but that is the case.

**isucyfan** · 03-31-2009, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by khaal53

It's not traveling in the women's game. It's also legal for high school girls. I don't know why, but that is the case.

I know it's not, but that's what bugs me. It should be.

**d4nim4l** · 03-31-2009, 11:36 AM

To add to this I also noticed numerous times Appel hooked Wieben/Anderson/Nisleit while going for a rebound. Hooked an arm to hold them off then rebounded with her free hand.

As a matter of fact that exact move led to Wieben's second foul and put her on the bench for the rest of the 1st half.

**clone52** · 03-31-2009, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by isucyfan

Not to derail your thread, but on a similar note, I can't stand that they allow that "step-through" move in the women's game. They change their pivot foot, which is traveling!! It drives me batty.

Its only traveling if you pick up your pivot foot AND put it back on the floor. Otherwise, everyone attempting a jumpshot would travel.

**The_Architect** · 03-31-2009, 11:38 AM

They also seem to not call palming or carrying in the womens game. I think Lacy carried the ball almost every possession.

**clone52** · 03-31-2009, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by khaal53

It's not traveling in the women's game. It's also legal for high school girls. I don't know why, but that is the case.

Its not traveling in the men's game or hs boys either. You just don't see it much. I think probably because it would super easy for an athletic defender to block.

**isucyfan** · 03-31-2009, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by clone52

Its not traveling in the men's game or hs boys either.

Not sure that's true...I thought anytime you established a pivot foot, then changed it, it's textbook traveling. That's what they allow in the women's/girls game for some reason. Men/boys would get called for traveling 99% of the time for that move.

**MidwestZest** · 03-31-2009, 11:49 AM

well, i correct me if i'm wrong, but i guess it prolly goes like this. Establish right foot as pivot foot. then step through with the left, and (theoretically) jump with both feet coming off the ground at the same time. Theoretically that's what's going on right? ....even though really it's just stepping through and lifting your right foot slightly before your left???

**isucyfan** · 03-31-2009, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by MidwestZest

well, i correct me if i'm wrong, but i guess it prolly goes like this. Establish right foot as pivot foot. then step through with the left, and (theoretically) jump with both feet coming off the ground at the same time. Theoretically that's what's going on right? ....even though really it's just stepping through and lifting your right foot slightly before your left???

From what I've always understood, when you establish a pivot foot, (which is what is done when the player turns and shows ball in this move) it's then "glued" to the floor. Any picking up of said foot without jumping to pass or shoot results in a travel. With this "up and under" move, there is a step before the shot, which to me is a textbook travel.

I could be wrong, though...that happened once before.

**isucyfan** · 03-31-2009, 12:03 PM

Here's the NCAA rule:

Art. 4. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before
the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;

So, it's definitely legal in both men's and women's...we should start teaching our men that move, because it offers a huge advantage to the offensive player, IMO.