Question from a VERY casual fan

**Cyclonetrombone** · 12-07-2012, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Judoka

Wrestling is not a headcount sport so simply looking at commits only tells you half the story, especially since the recruiting season is nowhere near over. How much money recruits are getting (which isn't released) is very, very important. Wrestling coaches only have 9.9 scholarships to spread out over 5 classes. Being able to get guys for smaller amounts, or getting guys to walk on and be depth contributers here rather than go D-III and be all stars is huge in wrestling. Places like Iowa and Penn State can get elite guys to walk on or take very small scholarships (and Cornell is Ivy League so doesn't do scholarships period). ISU doesn't have that luxury.

Use to be able to... I know guys came just for Cael but guys also came for Douglas. Personally, I wonder why we don't go after Barlow McGee 120 from Rock Island? Or what about Doug Minor from Spirit Lake? Or Eric Lux 180 South Tama? I won't call out specific players because they are both nice guys but how much of our scholarship money was blown on wrestlers of little accomplishment before they even set foot on ISU's campus. Iowa's requirement seems to be "hey win a state title or I guess you can come here and practice" seems like a decent requirement. Wrestling is a sport where you need to come in ready to rumble and spending 3 years developing a guy for them to MAYBE get AA as a senior is a waste of time effort and money.

**Yellow Snow** · 12-07-2012, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Judoka

Wrestling is not a headcount sport so simply looking at commits only tells you half the story, especially since the recruiting season is nowhere near over. How much money recruits are getting (which isn't released) is very, very important. Wrestling coaches only have 9.9 scholarships to spread out over 5 classes. Being able to get guys for smaller amounts, or getting guys to walk on and be depth contributers here rather than go D-III and be all stars is huge in wrestling. Places like Iowa and Penn State can get elite guys to walk on or take very small scholarships (and Cornell is Ivy League so doesn't do scholarships period). ISU doesn't have that luxury.

Well... Sorensen took a half scholly to Iowa over a 3/4 scholly here. So there is that.

Edit... we also told him he'd be bumped to full scholly if he AA'd. Still chose Iowa.

**Judoka** · 12-07-2012, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclonetrombone

Use to be able to...

Wrestling isn't what it was 20 or 30 years ago. It isn't just the Iowa and Oklahoma schools anymore. ISU not being a destination isn't a Jackson problem, its an ISU problem. We're still in the upper tier of facilities and support, but while there are fewer D1 wrestling schools nowadays the schools that still have wrestling are pumping in a lot more money than they used to. Guys who want to be national or Olympic champions don't have to pick between Iowa, ISU, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State. They have dozens of schools to pick from. There is more talent coming up from the high school ranks nowadays but there are also more schools vieing for it.

The second tier of college wrestling is also growing tremendously. Smaller liberal arts schools recognize that Football and Wrestling are great ways to get males to attend their schools, and since they are non-scholarship they come out ahead because tuition/fees of a few hundred guys coming to play sports covers the cost of the AD. So a not quite elite guy who would have come to a school like ISU in the past and been a depth guy who might break the lineup as a senior is now instead going the D-III route and starting four years at a small liberal arts school.

**NEICyFan** · 12-07-2012, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by cyadict

What about either of the Paulson brothers?

One of them scheduled his BACHELOR PARTY and WEDDING during wrestling season. Enough said.

**Wesley** · 12-07-2012, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by clonedude

I don't know much about wrestling either, but this post above makes it sound as if we should give KJ a few more years, right?

If Cael left the cupboard bare when he left, and KJ has finally gotten some decent depth in the wrestling room, then shouldn't he be allowed to see what he can do with this depth when it gets a bit older?

I do not know if we have ten years to wait.

**CTTB78** · 12-08-2012, 10:44 AM

We shouldn't wait ten years either. ISU was a national power and now the program has almost been killed. Before we build statues of JP, as some joke about, he needs to set expectations for wrestling that are much different that what we are currently seeing. I don't think he can wait for Creighton to bail him out again either.

**psyclone51** · 12-09-2012, 10:22 AM

Jackson's recruiting has been fine and he did a wonderful job turning our "good" wrestlers into "great" wrestlers, but at this point he needs to turn a bunch of young kids into college wrestlers, and we aren't seeing that happen.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, dude, I generally respect your posts, but with all due respect, Jackson's recruiting has not been fine. Given his recruiting successes, we should not be as bad as we are, and that falls on his development skills. But if we aspire to be top 10 or top 5 in the country, we need to recruit much more effectively. The current guys in the room should be able to move us at least into top 20 if not top 15 territory - and right now, that is not happening. But it can still happen this year. And I REALLY hope it does.

**leroycyclone** · 12-09-2012, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Yellow Snow

Well... Sorensen took a half scholly to Iowa over a 3/4 scholly here. So there is that.

Edit... we also told him he'd be bumped to full scholly if he AA'd. Still chose Iowa.

Which brings up a question. How many wrestlers, like Div III athletes, can enter under an academic scholarship?

**Judoka** · 12-09-2012, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by psyclone51

Sorry, dude, I generally respect your posts, but with all due respect, Jackson's recruiting has not been fine. Given his recruiting successes, we should not be as bad as we are, and that falls on his development skills. But if we aspire to be top 10 or top 5 in the country, we need to recruit much more effectively. The current guys in the room should be able to move us at least into top 20 if not top 15 territory - and right now, that is not happening. But it can still happen this year. And I REALLY hope it does.

That was my point though - that given how he has recruited we should be sitting better right now than we saw the first few meets, but we haven't seen the development that we need to see once they get on campus. I don't think you are disagreeing with me there.

Yesterday was very encouraging. Only a few of our starters were at the UNI open but we put together a pretty good meet and knocked off some ranked guys. Moreno especially looked very good.

**Alnacin** · 12-09-2012, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Judoka

Wrestling is not a headcount sport so simply looking at commits only tells you half the story, especially since the recruiting season is nowhere near over. How much money recruits are getting (which isn't released) is very, very important. Wrestling coaches only have 9.9 scholarships to spread out over 5 classes. Being able to get guys for smaller amounts, or getting guys to walk on and be depth contributers here rather than go D-III and be all stars is huge in wrestling. Places like Iowa and Penn State can get elite guys to walk on or take very small scholarships (and Cornell is Ivy League so doesn't do scholarships period). ISU doesn't have that luxury.

Always an excuse judoka or is it, Iagranqueso.

**Judoka** · 12-09-2012, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Alnacin

Always an excuse judoka or is it, Iagranqueso.

That's strange, when I pointed out that you are a Queso alt your response was "I have no idea who Queso is". But in now you are using his extended handle. You're really bad at this.

Originally Posted by Alnacin

My intentions were not to fool anyone. I don't know who queso is. Sounds to me like you get real upset when someone disagrees with you. Would you like to put your money where your mouth is?