Varner Loses

Cypwr · 03-22-2008, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclone62

I agree, but it should be known that Cael tended to wrestle the same way. A student/athlete will almost always tend to follow that same path. Varner is doing just that. I agree that it's both good and bad, and to be honest, I would rather see wrestling that resembles Gable and Brands that is out-right domination on the mat.

Not really on HR someone asked about Cael style and one of their poster came up with Cael match stats, Cael won a large percentage of his matches with bonus points. Wish I could recall exact number but I am too lazy to go find it.

CrossCyed · 03-22-2008, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclone62

I think we're just talking about AA's. Or should be, at least. (Otherwise we lose Clark as well)

I believe Clark is a true freshman.

Cyclone62 · 03-22-2008, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by CrossCyed

I believe Clark is a true freshman.

He's either a Senior or a true Frosh. Now you made me question myself!

superfan · 03-22-2008, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclone62

He's either a Senior or a true Frosh. Now you made me question myself!

He's a true freshman

tripod · 03-22-2008, 10:41 PM

varner did it to himself. thats what happens when you don't have any legit offense that you try. that being said, he got jobbed in the last overtime period when the ref called a stalemate when varner was about to get out. it will be a really tough weight next year with both of those guys back, the guy from northwestern coming back, and a whole bunch of other tough guys.

Cypwr · 03-22-2008, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by cygrads

Everyone needs to let the VT thing go - it makes no sense - Brands would get these guys no matter where he is at because these guys want to wrestle for him not the school.

I really do not care if guys transfer or not, if it is within the rules more power to them. The 1 point that does not get talked about is this helps UI because these guys are going to UI without using any or very little of UI scholarship $. The 4 VT transfers would have gotten some $ if they would have went to UI right out of highschool and some of the guys that are on their roster that got the schollie in the absents of the 4 may have not went to UI with less $ to offer. 1 of the 4 VT transfers is from my high school and was offered a schollie out of high school but now is basically paying his own way. It does help their team strength in the present but they did lose a top recruit because with VT 4 coming in this year TShirt redshirted this being his SR year and with him coming back it did not loosen up the $ going to him and the recruit would not come to UI without the $ so instead decided to switch to Ill.

Rick · 03-23-2008, 05:44 PM

If I remember Cael's wrestling style he was excellent with the ankle pick and scored a ton of points on take downs. I heard that the take down by stinnot was only the second one Varner gave up all year. We now he can defend and Cael will hopefully get the guys more offensive moves to work on for next winter. As for the ??? that suggested we find some other coach besides Cael, WOW! Get a clue. We have the number 1 ranked 285 and the number 3 125 coming in plus Nate Carr JR. If we can get someone to step up at 74 or 97 we should be right back in the hunt next year.

Balls · 03-23-2008, 06:49 PM

First, Varner is an excellent wrestler. He put himself in the position to win a national title 2 years running. There is no guarantee in wrestling no matter how good or determined on offense a wrestler is... see Gable. That's what made Cael's record so impressive. But I agree that additional training for Varner needs to more focused on expanding his offensive moves. That's where he is going to get more bang for his buck and farther increase his odds to separate from his main competition.

Either way, Varner is going to be a top 3 or better place finisher the next two years. For the "team" to take the next step we need the other 9 wrestlers to put themselves in the same position as Varner. If we could get 2-3 more Varner's in putting themselves in the position to be top 1-3 place finishers then we would make a huge leap and contend for the title year in and out.

anticyclonic · 03-23-2008, 06:50 PM

I think we have the top 174 or close weight wrestler coming as well (from Illinois).

agcy68 · 03-23-2008, 06:57 PM

The VT thing is a crock. If this become the wave of the future, then all a coach has to do is go out and get a recruiting class by telling all the athletes and their parents that they can go with him to wherever he goes - huge recruiting benefit. Take the top athletes that you sign and then go shopping to get a team that compliments your team and name your price. I know that a lot of players leave during a coaching change, but they don't usually get to follow their coach. Not enough characters on the keyboard (@#%#@$@%@) to match my feelings for this.

What if GMAC would have raided the UNI roster when he left or if S. Alford would have taken his number 2 Big X team to Indiana. This is the kind of thing that has, historically, been ethically/morally wrong. I believe that the NCAA needs to close this loophole to protect what is left of the character of the NCAA system.

Balls · 03-23-2008, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by agcy68

The VT thing is a crock. If this become the wave of the future, then all a coach has to do is go out and get a recruiting class by telling all the athletes and their parents that they can go with him to wherever he goes - huge recruiting benefit. Take the top athletes that you sign and then go shopping to get a team that compliments your team and name your price. I know that a lot of players leave during a coaching change, but they don't usually get to follow their coach. Not enough characters on the keyboard (@#%#@$@%@) to match my feelings for this.

What if GMAC would have raided the UNI roster when he left or if S. Alford would have taken his number 2 Big X team to Indiana. This is the kind of thing that has, historically, been ethically/morally wrong. I believe that the NCAA needs to close this loophole to protect what is left of the character of the NCAA system.

I agree. Otherwise a coach who has a good team can get paid for his players. What if VT approached Brands, to get even with Iowa, to coach for say $300,000 per year for 5 years. He could take his team with him and basically VT could buy a championship team with only the coach profiting. That would be an easy way to build a team. Would Iowa fans agree with that?? Don't think so.

Heck, if ISU wants to win next year they need to offer up one of the other top school coaches where the weight classes would match up with ISU's to make us stronger. Offer up their head coach an assistant job but pay 3-4 times as much. Again, just buying a championship.

I know the money isn't there to pay at those type's of levels but right now schools can buy a team, not just coaches.

Clonehomer · 03-23-2008, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Balls

Heck, if ISU wants to win next year they need to offer up one of the other top school coaches where the weight classes would match up with ISU's to make us stronger. Offer up their head coach an assistant job but pay 3-4 times as much. Again, just buying a championship.

I know the money isn't there to pay at those type's of levels but right now schools can buy a team, not just coaches.

I'm sure this has been thought of and tried. The issue with wrestling is that very few high schools are that stacked with upper level D1 talent. If there is significant talent it is usually spread out through multiple grade levels, and you won't be guarenteed anyone else after a coach leaves. Your better off getting in good with the coach by doing clinics and such to have them try and push your school.

As for this VT thing. The wrestlers sat out their nessesary 1 year so they can wrestle. While I think what happened was bad for the sport, it was completely within the rules of the NCAA. They would have had the same penalty if it were a football coach leaving. The only sticking point in this matter was whether Brands contacted these guys after he got the Iowa job to get them to transfer (that would be a violation). Since no evidence was shown for that I would assume these guys made up their minds together. Either way its done and over with. The wrestlers sat out their year and they are wrestling now.

agcy68 · 03-23-2008, 08:07 PM

Actually, what I understand is that VT gave verbal approval for Brands to recruit kids with the agreement that if he left for UofI, they could go with him. Again, this may be "within the rules", but, in my opinion, it is unethical for all involved (VT, Brands, and UofI). I put it up as an unwritten rule that Brands and UofI took advantage of. Shame on all of them as it is bad for the NCAA in general and wrestling in particular.

Coaches are hired by the University to do a job for that University. For Brands to turn his back on his employer shows the lack of class that he has and for UofI to take advantage of the opportunity shows a win at all cost attitude that cost Tom Davis his job and currently has the football program more well known for trouble with the law than on field successes.

Clonehomer · 03-23-2008, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by agcy68

Actually, what I understand is that VT gave verbal approval for Brands to recruit kids with the agreement that if he left for UofI, they could go with him. Again, this may be "within the rules", but, in my opinion, it is unethical for all involved (VT, Brands, and UofI). I put it up as an unwritten rule that Brands and UofI took advantage of. Shame on all of them as it is bad for the NCAA in general and wrestling in particular.

Coaches are hired by the University to do a job for that University. For Brands to turn his back on his employer shows the lack of class that he has and for UofI to take advantage of the opportunity shows a win at all cost attitude that cost Tom Davis his job and currently has the football program more well known for trouble with the law than on field successes.

That's been disputed. Brands told the kids that but the university says they never entered such agreement. Basically, someone is lying about that and I don't know who. Being a cyclone fan I want to say Brands is lying through his teeth but in reality the VT AD isn't coming across squeaky clean. The AD may have made some promises but purposely kept them verbal only so he could deny them later.

SouthernHawk · 03-23-2008, 11:21 PM

Is this thread about Varner, or yet another one about the VT transfers? Let this go. Man, every single wrestling thread turns into something about the Virginia Tech guys, and Brands, etc... It's hard to read up on ISU wrestling when the talk eventually gravitates to Iowa.

Anyways.... Varner had won all year with his defensive style. Nothing "caught up to him." Pucillo was undefeated for a reason, and so was Varner. The match went to 2 OT, which says they were very evenly matched. Varner is no Sanderson, so it's foolish to expect him to have been undefeated. Had he lost in the regular season, we'd be hearing the same thing.