If Iowa starts another Dynasty (heaven forbid) ...

keepngoal · 03-23-2008, 10:00 PM

so Jon, you obviously know what a low-carb troll should be eating....

why?

-keep

JonDMiller · 03-23-2008, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by agcy68

Jon, I believe that you are bording on hypocritical here and think that your gold colored glasses are clouding what is usually your better judgement. See the other thread for the full arguement, but there is a 3-fold issue with VTech / Brands / UofI.

First, this is a very, very slippery slope for the NCAA. What is to stop a coach from using current recruits as a bargaining tool for a "better" job/pay?

Second, VaTech hired T. Brands to be their coach and develop their program (not prepare a program for UofI). If he did not do that, then he was in breach of contract and should pay every last penny that they paid him back to that university. To not respect the hand that feeds you is improper to say the least.

Third, IF we all thought that GMac took the high road by telling his UNI players and recruits to fulfill their obligations (Jon, I believe that you felt this way too), then aren't we by default sayig that if T. Brands did the opposite he is taking the low road (i.e. un-ethical / no class / ...)?

I wish Lick had tried to get Matt Howard from Butler. In fact, I think that is part of his job, if it fits.

And if a kid wants to play for a coach, I think the kid should have the chance to play for the coach if the coach wants him. It has always been that way...which is why there is the transfer penalty, so shady things don't happen.

As far as Gmac taking the high road, or any coach taking the high road, which kids do you think you would have wanted to come to ISU to play in the Big 12, that were at UNI, that would have had two years to play for him after transfering? Egelseder was a big of a project at that point. Coleman isn't coming at that stage of his career, I don't think. Plus, he could dominate at that level.

So I don't think it was a case of taking the high road. I just don't know that there were many viable applicants for the Big 12. And don't get me wrong here, I am a big McDermott fan.

With the wrestling situation, we are talking about two, four-timers in Iowa here. And why did they leave the state? To wrestle for Brands. We are talking about Metcalf, who could have gone anywhere. He wanted to wrestle for Brands.

And clearly, they went to VT to wrestle for Tom Brands. They didn't go to VT for the tradition.

keepngoal · 03-23-2008, 10:03 PM

obviously you are riding the NC high Jon and spending a LOT of time in Cyclone country.

best of luck.

-keep

MontyBurns · 03-23-2008, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by JonDMiller

Tsirtsis was not going to wrestle this year because of grades. Stay out of the deep end here.

Interesting. So I guess getting a wrestler at the same weight off Virginia Tech's team gave Iowa no advantage then?

JonDMiller · 03-23-2008, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by MontyBurns

Interesting. So I guess getting a wrestler at the same weight off Virginia Tech's team gave Iowa no advantage then?

If you look at the ISU roster, you will see multiple wrestlers on there at each weight.

JonDMiller · 03-23-2008, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by keepngoal

obviously you are riding the NC high Jon and spending a LOT of time in Cyclone country.

best of luck.

-keep

I am on here every day my friend

CycloneWanderer · 03-23-2008, 11:30 PM

Someone mentioned the VT boards and so i decided to google it to see what came up and got a pretty entertaining quote:

Iowa wins the national wrestling championship hawkeye nation is on fire -- aenggeorge
Willing to donate a match to start it :) ** -- gern

Honestly I can't blame them for it. Index - TechSideline.com Olympic Sports Message Board

MontyBurns · 03-23-2008, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by JonDMiller

If you look at the ISU roster, you will see multiple wrestlers on there at each weight.

How many of them would have been starters at other schools if they hadn't transferred to ISU?

By they way, someday you should ask Lickliter why he didn't try to get Matt Howard to leave Butler for Iowa. You might learn something from his answer.

agcy68 · 03-24-2008, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by JonDMiller

I wish Lick had tried to get Matt Howard from Butler. In fact, I think that is part of his job, if it fits.

And if a kid wants to play for a coach, I think the kid should have the chance to play for the coach if the coach wants him. It has always been that way...which is why there is the transfer penalty, so shady things don't happen.

As far as Gmac taking the high road, or any coach taking the high road, which kids do you think you would have wanted to come to ISU to play in the Big 12, that were at UNI, that would have had two years to play for him after transfering? Egelseder was a big of a project at that point. Coleman isn't coming at that stage of his career, I don't think. Plus, he could dominate at that level.

So I don't think it was a case of taking the high road. I just don't know that there were many viable applicants for the Big 12. And don't get me wrong here, I am a big McDermott fan.

With the wrestling situation, we are talking about two, four-timers in Iowa here. And why did they leave the state? To wrestle for Brands. We are talking about Metcalf, who could have gone anywhere. He wanted to wrestle for Brands.

And clearly, they went to VT to wrestle for Tom Brands. They didn't go to VT for the tradition.

I think you are avoiding the gist of the comments here. This is a slippery slope - have team will travel. Regardless of who was available or appropriate, GMac told his kids to stay put and we thought him the better for it. T. Brands did not; so you think him the better for it as well? Don't you think that Huggy Bear would have loved to take Beasley with him to WVU? I suspect that Gillespie would have liked to take a couple of his players from aTm to Kenucky. Even worse, have a coach go out and negotiate with some star recruits who they want to play for, sign them and they go proposition that school that he should be the next coach. I realize that this won't work for top flight schools, but look at the lower tier BCS schools. They wouldn't be watering at the mouth to get that type of head start in their program? Take UofI / Brands / VaTech out of this argument and I think you would realize that it is a really bad idea.

Cyclone62 · 03-24-2008, 05:37 AM

Players commit to the school, not the coach. Coaches with class know this and do not gut a program if they leave for another job.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

CyBobby · 03-24-2008, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Madclone1

Yep . . and your analogy doesn't work because they (sports mentioned) are primarily female sports. They will stay. Wrestling is on life support . . why do you think the NCAA made a deal with ESPN? Another year of "the team championship has already been determined" will cause a major meltdown.

Wrestling is on life support....I completely agree

my friend...I even told our AD Pollard that he should consider dropping wrestling and give the money to the womens basketball program...the only winter sport that does any winning!! Maybe witha little more money the women could even get to the final four and win us a national championship!!!

Phaedrus · 03-24-2008, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by JonDMiller

The only reason anyone would wrestle at Iowa State is because of Cael.

Originally Posted by JonDMiller

The only reason anyone would wrestle at Iowa State is because of Cael.

Well.... You can say THAT again!

CYKOFAN · 03-24-2008, 11:31 AM

CyBobby- I understand your enthusiasm for the women with the Rutgers game tonight, I'll be there, but I'll bet the farm that Cael wins a national title (or several) before our women get to a Final 4. Wrestling is huge in our state and has historically been the most successful sport for ISU on a national level. Heck this year we are dissapointed with a 5th place finish nationally, but are giddy because our women won an NCAA game. And don't give up on the men, we won an NCAA game just 3 years ago, and I would guess the men have won more post season games in the last 5 years than the women have. I expect the men to be winning post season games within a year or two.

jdoggivjc · 03-24-2008, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by CyBobby

I was around before and for the squawk dynasty and it was not a pretty sight. If you want to destroy wrestling just have one team dominate the sport for ten years or so. Is it any wonder that the big 12 only has a few schools that still wrestle!!

Competition and different champs helps foster any and all sports ...

As far as I know only the former Big 8 schools of the Big XII ever wrestled, and I'm not sure Kansas or K-State ever wrestled. Last time I checked wrestling wasn't too big in Texas. To say that all of these schools in the Big XII just up and quit wrestling sounds a little ignorant to me, especially when it was only the Big 8 schools in the conference that wrestled to begin with.

jbhtexas · 03-24-2008, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

Last time I checked wrestling wasn't too big in Texas.

High school wrestling is quite popular in Texas, and is still growing rapidly. UT has added a wrestling club. As I understand it, UT has Title IX issues, and if they add a sport, it has to be women's sport. However, it really wouldn't surprise me if UT finds a way to add wrestling as a varsity sport (along with a women's sport - maybe gymnastics, since that is popular down here too), since they are now part of a wrestling conference. In that regard, where UT goes, aTm will follow...