Why No International Recruits

[mplscyclone]

I don't pretend to know anything about Wrestling, in fact I really don't even like it even though I gave it a legit shot (went to every meet my junior year). But I noticed in the Olympics that the US got worked. Why don't we recruit some of these international athletes?

I may not like wrestling but I like to see ISU win!

That's cool. At least you gave it a shot; that's more than most!

I've seen international wrestlers struggle quite a bit with folkstyle. A lot of Russians are usually pretty good, but when they come to the US they're just average.

I think if we changed our style of Wrestling here, you'd have some International athletes unseating Americans.

A big reason why Arizona State possibly cutting wrestling is that there'd be a decent number of west coast high school wrestlers not having a place to wrestle in college.

Anyhow if International Athletes came and beat out local people for spots, more people would be detached from the sport and there'd be less Americans getting ready for the Olympics.

I had a friend go to state 3X in Minnesota and place once and he didn't get any D1 offers, just a handful of D2. It's tough to make a college wrestling team in general, especially in Minnesota and Iowa: there's not many options and a lot of tough competition in- state.

[sunset]

Going back to the naive fan, they can get a sense of who's winning in a folkstyle match even if they don't know all the points. I don't think a casual fan could get a sense of who won the match by watching freestyle.

I know some may say "they can just look at the scoreboard", but fans want to have a sense of what's going on. In other sports, there's a basket, or a goal that you can tell when points are going to happen. With Wrestling, it's not always clear when someone will score.

I think putting in a style that is more about striking and less about control, would confuse some fans.

I am about as far away from expert status as you can get, but what confuses me with Olympic freestyle are the seemingly random rules.

- When a period ends in a non-zero tie score, why in the world do they award the period to the last person to score (or is it the first person?) instead of having them continue to wrestle? Is scoring last (or first if that's the case) really more important than the reverse? Can you imagine if there were no overtimes in football/basketball/etc and they used a similar rule?

- If I understand correctly, when a period ends 0-0 they flip a coin to see how they begin the tie-breaker/overtime. Why in the world do they flip a coin again if it happens a second or third time? Doesn't it make sense to simply reverse whatever happened with the first coin-flip? Leaving advantage to random chance doesn't seem fair.

So many questions for a sport I watch once every four years. You are right, I just don't get it.

[mplscyclone]

I am about as far away from expert status as you can get, but what confuses me with Olympic freestyle are the seemingly random rules.

- When a period ends in a non-zero tie score, why in the world do they award the period to the last person to score (or is it the first person?) instead of having them continue to wrestle? Is scoring last (or first if that's the case) really more important than the reverse? Can you imagine if there were no overtimes in football/basketball/etc and they used a similar rule?

- If I understand correctly, when a period ends 0-0 they flip a coin to see how they begin the tie-breaker/overtime. Why in the world do they flip a coin again if it happens a second or third time? Doesn't it make sense to simply reverse whatever happened with the first coin-flip? Leaving advantage to random chance doesn't seem fair.

So many questions for a sport I watch once every four years. You are right, I just don't get it.

1) In freestyle, the match is won on a round by round basis. You wrestle 3 periods. The winner of the two periods, wins the match.

For example, say after period 1, the score is : 3-1 you
In period 2, the score is: 1-4, then
And in Period 3, the score is : 1-0 you

You win the match because you won periods 1, and 3, even though the final score ends up being 5-5

Like-wise, if you win the first two periods, the match is over.

Also, if you won 3-1, lost 1-20, won 1-0, you were outscored
4-21, but you win the match

2) If at the end of each period, you're tied 0-0, you then do the tiebreaker, known as the clinch. A ref does a coin flip to determine who is clinched and who does the clinching. If you score a point after 30 seconds, you win that period. Also, if you are doing the clinching and no one scores after the 30 seconds, you win the period.

As far as why they do the coin-flip, it's just because. In folkstyle, they flip a coin to determine who choses which position to be in. It's just one of those things.

As a freestyle-wrestler, you gotta know how to score from either position.

Hopefully that helps! Remember, in Olympic Wrestling, you're trying to win 2 of 3 matches, not overall points spread out between the matches.

[sunset]

It seems like I remember seeing a period tied 2-2 and one person won because they scored first or last (I don't remember which). I guess you just have to know the rules and when to be aggressive. Is the clench only when a period is tied 0-0?

I understand the coin flip in folk-style, the winner gets to pick first then the other person gets the choice the following period. That seems fair to me. What I don't get is when I watched a free-style match (I think it was a U.S. trials match and a Hawk was on the losing end of the randomness) and they did a coin-flip after the first period and wrestler "x" benefitted. Then the same situation came up at the end of the second period and they did another coin-flip, which wrestler "x" again benefitted. Seems to me it would have been more fair if wrestler "y" automatically got the choice the second time instead of having another flip.

I'm sure the rules make sense to most of the world, I guess I don't get what seems to be some randomness.

Thanks for the explanations.

[mplscyclone]

It seems like I remember seeing a period tied 2-2 and one person won because they scored first or last (I don't remember which). I guess you just have to know the rules and when to be aggressive. Is the clench only when a period is tied 0-0?

I understand the coin flip in folk-style, the winner gets to pick first then the other person gets the choice the following period. That seems fair to me. What I don't get is when I watched a free-style match (I think it was a U.S. trials match and a Hawk was on the losing end of the randomness) and they did a coin-flip after the first period and wrestler "x" benefitted. Then the same situation came up at the end of the second period and they did another coin-flip, which wrestler "x" again benefitted. Seems to me it would have been more fair if wrestler "y" automatically got the choice the second time instead of having another flip.

I'm sure the rules make sense to most of the world, I guess I don't get what seems to be some randomness.

Thanks for the explanations.

I'll start with the coin flip. I think it's just one of those things. It determines position, but still up to each wrestler to execute. I don't think it's really going anywhere...

Now onto a tied non-zero-score period:

If a period is tied like 2-2, there is a series of tie-breakers:

1) Did anyone get any cautions? Cautions are illegal holds, stalling, etc. Whoever got the LEAST amount of cautions wins the match. This is going back to awarding for attacking and trying moves.

2)Often times neither gets a caution. If that's the case, THEN they look at who got the highest scoring move. For example, if it's 4-4, did one guy get a 3 point move, then 1, or was it 2-2, or 1-1-1-1?
Whoever has the highest scoring move, they win the period. So if a guy did a 2 point move, and the other did two 1 point moves, the guy that did the 2 point move would win.

3)If #2 doesn't break the tie, THEN the period is awarded to the person who scored last.

By looking at those above tie-breakers, you can see it's about attacking and making sure you stay aggresive throughout the period. It really rewards those who continue to be aggressive and keep trying moves.

In folkstyle, a guy can build an early lead, and then hope to maintain it by not being aggresive through the rest of the period. Also in folkstyle, a guy can build a big lead in period 1, and be conservative the last 2 periods.

In freestyle, it's a more "what have you done lately" approach. Each period is a single event you have to win, and you gotta keep attacking throughout the entire period.

Hopefully that helps....

[TedKumsher]

One thing about the coin flip EVERY period -- it's that each period is complete and final in and of itself. Points don't carry over. Think of it like 3 completely separate matches. Or maybe a basketball playoff series. If you play the best 3 out of 5 games -- and the first 2 games go to overtime -- you do a jump ball each game for overtime -- you don't take turns (I 'spose college would be a better example where they don't do jump balls during the game but they do for overtime). Winning the jump ball in OT is a huge (well, significant) advantage -- but they don't just give it to the other team the next game.

[1100011CS]

One thing about the coin flip EVERY period -- it's that each period is complete and final in and of itself. Points don't carry over. Think of it like 3 completely separate matches. Or maybe a basketball playoff series. If you play the best 3 out of 5 games -- and the first 2 games go to overtime -- you do a jump ball each game for overtime -- you don't take turns (I 'spose college would be a better example where they don't do jump balls during the game but they do for overtime). Winning the jump ball in OT is a huge (well, significant) advantage -- but they don't just give it to the other team the next game.

Good explanation.