My thoughts on what could have gone down...

**tigershoops31** · 04-18-2009, 10:58 AM

I have no connections to the ISU wrestling program at this point, but what I am thinking is that it was a facilities rift between Cael and JP. Cael sees the MBB and WBB teams getting a new practice facility and with the success wrestling has had wants something for wrestling. JP obviously isn't going to build a new facility for a non-revenue sport and figures he is already paying Cael more than any other coach in the country so he shoots that down.

From Cael's perspective JP isn't giving him the "edge" he thinks he needs to win a title and it eats at him creating a rift between him and JP. From JP's perspective he is already shelling out about all he can afford to while keeping the athletic department afloat. Neither would be "wrong", but it would make sense considering he's mentioned the facilities and it being easier to win a national title at Penn State.

Anybody with better connections know if this is on track at all with what happened?

**Cymon** · 04-18-2009, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by tigershoops31

I have no connections to the ISU wrestling program at this point, but what I am thinking is that it was a facilities rift between Cael and JP. Cael sees the MBB and WBB teams getting a new practice facility and with the success wrestling has had wants something for wrestling. JP obviously isn't going to build a new facility for a non-revenue sport and figuresis already paying Cael more than any other coach in the country so he shoots that down.

From Cael's perspective JP isn't giving him the "edge" he thinks he needs to win a title and it eats at him creating a rift between him and JP. From JP's perspective he is already shelling out about all he can afford to while keeping the athletic department afloat. Neither would be "wrong", but it would make sense considering he's mentioned the facilities and it being easier to win a national title at Penn State.

Anybody with better connections know if this is on track at all with what happened?

This is what I am thinking. It has to be something along these lines. Like Pollard or not, he isn't as stupid as some on here are making him out to be. ISU is still hurting from the Gable debacle. There is no way they would let this happen a second time due to the so called incompetency on the part of their Athletic Director. Cael Sanderson is bigger than Jamie Pollard. He has to be the most recognized athlete to ever come out of ISU. I am betting that if this whole thing went down just because of Cael and JP not having a good relationship, many donors would have forced JP out the door before Sanderson.

**MilehighClone** · 04-18-2009, 11:13 AM

Good point. The thing that I don't understand is Cael talking about the ability to win national championships. What about the guys coming back next year? If Fan is healthy, he AA's this year and it just might have put us over the top. With all the guys coming back, we would certainly be one of the favorites to win the national championship NEXT YEAR. Why forgive a(potential) national title next year, for the chance at winning one at PSU in 3-4 years? It just dosn't add up. Knowing the truth would sure be nice.

**LindenCy** · 04-18-2009, 11:41 AM

I think that facilities played a significant role for sure, but I really would like to know the whole story.

**crash_zone** · 04-18-2009, 12:00 PM

is the guy really only worried about his legacy? Really, who cares if it is easier to win a title at Pen? You stand up for friends and family first. It isn't like he was living on food stamps - he made good money.

**jumbopackage** · 04-18-2009, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Cymon

This is what I am thinking. It has to be something along these lines. Like Pollard or not, he isn't as stupid as some on here are making him out to be. ISU is still hurting from the Gable debacle. There is no way they would let this happen a second time due to the so called incompetency on the part of their Athletic Director. Cael Sanderson is bigger than Jamie Pollard. He has to be the most recognized athlete to ever come out of ISU. I am betting that if this whole thing went down just because of Cael and JP not having a good relationship, many donors would have forced JP out the door before Sanderson.

There is NO way that Cael is the most recognizable athlete to ever come out of ISU.

Maybe for ISU fans, but outside the state of Iowa nobody even knows who he is. Hell, I grew up in Indiana and I had no idea who Dan Gable was until I sat next to the guy at an Iowa meet and my girlfriend at the time told me who he was.

Seneca Wallace, Sage Rosenfels, Jeff Hornacek, Fred Hoiberg, Jerome Tinsley, Marcus Fizer, probably Craig Brackens. All of those guys are more well recognized to most people outside of Iowa than Cael would be.

Let's face it, outside of a few areas of the country, wrestling is a completely fringe sport that nobody cares about. Much like lacrosse or cricket is here.

**kingcy** · 04-18-2009, 12:22 PM

Last time I was in the wrestling room at ISU it was top notch. The weightroom was probaly the same. Now maybe he wanted a strength coach of his own and that is understandable. There is nothing wrong with the facalities at ISU. FB and BB pay the way for the rest of the sports and GAVE him a chance to be the best ever.

**ricochet** · 04-18-2009, 01:17 PM

One thing I've been wondering about is if the Big 12 has anything to do with this. I could see the day that wrestling is dropped as a conference sport and unfortunately if that happens I could also see dropping it at ISU. The Big 10 is much more committed to wrestling.

I also can see the recruiting attraction. At ISU you have to work a lot harder to get people even in state. At Penn State you are the big dog and if you just get the pick of the in state kids you are a national contender. Somebody posted a list and I think there were something like 11 all Americans from Pennsylvania and I think 2 from Iowa.

**michaelrr1** · 04-18-2009, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by jumbopackage

There is NO way that Cael is the most recognizable athlete to ever come out of ISU.

Maybe for ISU fans, but outside the state of Iowa nobody even knows who he is. Hell, I grew up in Indiana and I had no idea who Dan Gable was until I sat next to the guy at an Iowa meet and my girlfriend at the time told me who he was.

Seneca Wallace, Sage Rosenfels, Jeff Hornacek, Fred Hoiberg, Jerome Tinsley, Marcus Fizer, probably Craig Brackens. All of those guys are more well recognized to most people outside of Iowa than Cael would be.

Let's face it, outside of a few areas of the country, wrestling is a completely fringe sport that nobody cares about. Much like lacrosse or cricket is here.

I don't remember this guy.

**everyyard** · 04-18-2009, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by ricochet

One thing I've been wondering about is if the Big 12 has anything to do with this. I could see the day that wrestling is dropped as a conference sport and unfortunately if that happens I could also see dropping it at ISU. The Big 10 is much more committed to wrestling.

I also can see the recruiting attraction. At ISU you have to work a lot harder to get people even in state. At Penn State you are the big dog and if you just get the pick of the in state kids you are a national contender. Somebody posted a list and I think there were something like 11 all Americans from Pennsylvania and I think 2 from Iowa.

but if you can't motivate them to get "the hard points" what does it matter.

**bigredqb7** · 04-18-2009, 01:31 PM

hahahaha jerome tinsley, thats rich

**JRE1975** · 04-18-2009, 01:39 PM

I hope this thread stays a sensible discussion of the issues involved. Sorry if this is too long for some of you.

Before I start I want to disclose that I know JP very well, and I have only met CS a few times at NCC and Trivia events.

My take on what might have happened based on what I have heard from people that know more than me:

On the ISU side:

JP has made it clear that he has organized the AD in a way that first priority for support of the 18 sports goes to FB, MBB, WBB, Wrestling, and VB. This only applies within the financial constraints of being ISU.

Despite the AD budget going from $27 million when JP got here to $41 million this year, the state is reducing funding to all areas of ISU and as a prudent manager of a $40+ million organization JP has told all sports that budgets are going down until we know the effect of the bad economy. As far as I know all sports understand what is going on and are working as part of the organization to reduce expenses.

CS is a perfectionist who wants to win. To win he wants every resource he can get, not cut back. I do not know if CS had a problem with cutting back or not. I was not aware of any problem between JP and CS and I would be surprised if there was any.

ON the PSU side-

PSU has a budget of over $30 million a year more than ISU. They get over 3 times the TV and conference money than ISU, or any Big 12 school for that matter, and they put 100,000 people in the football stadium 7 times a year.

PSU has a very rich wrestling alum that wants PSU to win national titles. From what I hear he is funding continued improvements in anything and everything related to PSU wrestling, including getting the best coach they can get. (This is the same thing Roy Carver did at Iowa when he wanted the wrestling program at Iowa to be great with Dan Gable.)

CS side-

CS wants to win. At 29 years old he has been very successful at everything he has done. After three years, he sees other schools, primarily in the Big 10, which have more resources for wrestling than he does at ISU. He sees less than half the Big 12 schools with a wrestling program and can kind of see the writing on the wall of where the power in wrestling is going to be in the future. He is getting smoke blown up his *** by a big budget school with a rich alum promising the world.

He is 29 years old with a family and instead of worrying about potential pay cuts he can get a decent (or big) raise. I have no idea what he is getting paid at PSU. He has been well paid at ISU compared to other coaches around the country.

Overall-
JP is a good AD and those of us that have run $40+ million companies know sometimes you lose good people because the organization can not afford to match another offer. I don’t care whether ISU had a chance to match, what difference does it make if you are CS and you know ISU can not match the salary and resources offered by PSU.

JP has the very solid support of the President, because the President, better than any of us, understands how much better the current AD is than what we had before. The guy that runs the $700+ million ISU operations likes not worrying about the high profile, but relatively small athletic department. I am sure the President is wondering why losing a top professor to another school because ISU can not afford to match the offer does not get this much attention.

CS is making the decision that is best for his family and his career. I don’t think it has anything to do with a battle with JP as much as it is going to an institution with more consistent resources for him to win national titles whether it is from the school or from a rich alum.

I wish him the CS the best; I wish JP good speed in finding another coach that is good enough that others might try and hire later.

**superfan** · 04-18-2009, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by JRE1975

I hope this thread stays a sensible discussion of the issues involved. Sorry if this is too long for some of you.

Before I start I want to disclose that I know JP very well, and I have only met CS a few times at NCC and Trivia events.

My take on what might have happened based on what I have heard from people that know more than me...

Having no proximity to the athletics department (or the state of Iowa, for that matter), all of this makes a lot of sense to me. I'd probably put this as the most rational shake at what went on that I've seen.

**MNclone** · 04-18-2009, 01:50 PM

I agree completely with JRE1975. Cael is a guy who wants to win at all costs, and Penn State has promised him everything he needs to build a dynasty over there. I'm sure it was hard for him to accept, but impossible for him to turn down.

**JJ4ISU** · 04-18-2009, 01:54 PM

NO wrestling coach on earth is worth what Penn State is paying CS, so Pollard was smart not to even try to match that (I don't think he did). What Penn State has done will either be ignored by all other schools who agree that PSU is way overpaying, or other schools are going to start to scramble to keep their coaches by trying to up the salaries. I hope we can go out and hire a good coach for about $100K. Because that's what we should be paying our head wrestling coach, and in my opinion, that's what they deserve.