No ****. That doesn't mean they had anything resembling a passing attack. It means Iowa had far superior players in the front 7.
How was Sash tested in that game?
ISU vs Iowa Position Debate
- Thread starter mitchforcy
- Start date
No ****. That doesn't mean they had anything resembling a passing attack. It means Iowa had far superior players in the front 7.
How was Sash tested in that game?
Are you forgetting you went 7-6 last year and have only won more than 7 games once in 32 years?
All of this **** you are typing about how good GTech is is irrelevant. We are talking about why you listed them as a team that Sash was tested against. They attempt 5 passes maximum a game. Sash only came up with one tackle against them the entire game. What does that tell you? Why would you list that game?
I can understand the argument about GT and its irrelevant passing attack. Because obviously they don't pass a lot. They are a running option team. When they do pass, its bombs down field. Sash wasn't even really needed because the line and the linebackers were doing their job. If Sash was making tackles and such, that means the defensive line and linebackers were not playing gap defense and therefore would of been getting spanked. I guess i'm just kind of confused on why T-Sash is so over rated? or the secondary for that matter? I mean they were ranked near the top 5 in almost every passing defense statistic as a unit.
QB: Push. AA is better for ISU's system. Stanzi is better for Iowa's system. Stanzi could not take the physical punishment as easily or have the rushing ability to effectively run the zone-read runs ISU uses. AA is pretty much a tank carrying the ball, he's not lightning quick but he is fast and hard to bring down. I can see why Iowa fans think this is crazy because Iowa was AA's worst career game by a mile last year. Watching them both this weekend, I'd easily take AA for ISU's system and personnel over Stanzi. And yes credit is also due to Iowa's D for last year's bad game.
RB: ISU, but could change if Hampton is the Heisman candidate Iowa fans claim he was while backing up Shawn Greene. ARob is the best for now, but ISU has no proven backups. Iowa's Robinson was VERY good for a freshman last year.
WR: Iowa. McNutt really developed beyond expectations last year and DJK has the quicks. ISU's unit has a lot of potential though, comparing this unit is a little like RB's except reversed since Reynolds looked good early last year then got hurt. Will be interesting to see if freshman RB Shontrelle Johnson lines up as a slot receiver again in this game because of his reported big play abilities.
TE: Push. Iowa has more depth but they have nobody I'd rather have than Franklin, ISU doesn't really use more than one TE very often so as long as he's healthy it's a push.
OLine: Iowa. It's certainly not a glaring weak spot for ISU like it's been in year's past but I've learned to give Iowa the benefit of the doubt in this area.
DBs: Push. Both teams have playmaking ability. LJ is the first player Rhodes brings up talking about the offseason and he was already talented. I may have given a slight edge to Iowa but seeing how well our backup SS/FS played against NIU shows that ISU has some depth so I'll call it a push.
Linebackers: Iowa. Thought this was our weakest non-special teams unit against NIU despite Knott's great game.
Dline: Iowa. Not really worth talking about, Iowa is elite there this year.
Kicker: Iowa. Thought this was our single worst unit vs. NIU. Short kickoffs, bad fg miss, first two PATs were practically missed.
Punter: Iowa. Not much better than kicker for us vs. NIU
Punt/Kick return: Push. Historical stats tell us LJ and Sims are the best here, but we didn't really seem to have any big play potential vs. NIU so I wonder if our blocking on these plays still needs work this year.
Punt/Kick coverage: I can't really say how Iowa will be here, but I thought ISU looked very good vs. NIU here, especially given how short the kicks and punts were.
RB: ISU, but could change if Hampton is the Heisman candidate Iowa fans claim he was while backing up Shawn Greene. ARob is the best for now, but ISU has no proven backups. Iowa's Robinson was VERY good for a freshman last year.
WR: Iowa. McNutt really developed beyond expectations last year and DJK has the quicks. ISU's unit has a lot of potential though, comparing this unit is a little like RB's except reversed since Reynolds looked good early last year then got hurt. Will be interesting to see if freshman RB Shontrelle Johnson lines up as a slot receiver again in this game because of his reported big play abilities.
TE: Push. Iowa has more depth but they have nobody I'd rather have than Franklin, ISU doesn't really use more than one TE very often so as long as he's healthy it's a push.
OLine: Iowa. It's certainly not a glaring weak spot for ISU like it's been in year's past but I've learned to give Iowa the benefit of the doubt in this area.
DBs: Push. Both teams have playmaking ability. LJ is the first player Rhodes brings up talking about the offseason and he was already talented. I may have given a slight edge to Iowa but seeing how well our backup SS/FS played against NIU shows that ISU has some depth so I'll call it a push.
Linebackers: Iowa. Thought this was our weakest non-special teams unit against NIU despite Knott's great game.
Dline: Iowa. Not really worth talking about, Iowa is elite there this year.
Kicker: Iowa. Thought this was our single worst unit vs. NIU. Short kickoffs, bad fg miss, first two PATs were practically missed.
Punter: Iowa. Not much better than kicker for us vs. NIU
Punt/Kick return: Push. Historical stats tell us LJ and Sims are the best here, but we didn't really seem to have any big play potential vs. NIU so I wonder if our blocking on these plays still needs work this year.
Punt/Kick coverage: I can't really say how Iowa will be here, but I thought ISU looked very good vs. NIU here, especially given how short the kicks and punts were.
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I'm not talking about anything but the fact that I think David Sims is as good or slightly better than Tyler Sash. (before you go crying to HN about it :biggrin
. When I brought this up the only thing any hawk fan can tell me is that Sash is better because he is a preseason All American pick. My opinion on that is that he is on that list because Iowa is a top ten team and he is a good player on that team. I just want to hear the reasoning for why Sash is so much better than Sims?
P.S. I don't think your secondary is bad, I think they are a solid group, but those stats you have might be inflated by having such a great D-line. And if you were wondering, I think almost every person in this thread (including most Iowa fans) views the QBs as a push because they are factoring in AAs running ability and the system each QB is in.
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I don't think anyone is saying Sash is over-rated so much as we are saying Sims is under-rated.
Basically, both of them could start at almost any school in the country.
It's not that Sash is overrated, he is an excellent player, it's that Simms is equally a great player. I would gladly take Sash, and I'm sure Hawks would gladly have Simms.
The GT vs. ISU argument is erroneous!
Brief observation:
I noticed Sash sells out on run coverage almost as if he's a 4th LBer. He's a great run supporter but if not cautious it may cost him with the appeared vulnerability of Micah Hyde. I wonder if Herman will take notice as well and utilize some play action and play to that tendency.
The GT vs. ISU argument is erroneous!
Brief observation:
I noticed Sash sells out on run coverage almost as if he's a 4th LBer. He's a great run supporter but if not cautious it may cost him with the appeared vulnerability of Micah Hyde. I wonder if Herman will take notice as well and utilize some play action and play to that tendency.
I'm not sure anyone can call Micah Hyde a weak link yet. He bit on a double move and got beat deep once. Then he got beat for a touchdown on a broken play where the qb had extra time in the pocket as Clayborn decided to point at the LT instead of rush. He may be the weak link, but it's gonna take more than two completions in a game to earn that label.
And Sash can get beaten deep just like anyone. It happened on the first play of the Penn State game last year when the coaches had him in the box, but I'm not sure he cheats up when he's not supposed to.
As for ISU's play action, I'm not sure you're gonna get Sash in the box too often with all the spread sets ISU runs. Penn State the last two years and Wisconsin are teams where the coaches will tinker around with Sash in the box, but they're not gonna send Sash to the ball carrier when there are 3 or 4 wrs running routes.
What the **** is your point? You are just making a score up on a game that never happened and acting like it if a real score. 32 years that is a nice round historical number.
And no one that really knows anything about football or has actually seen Sims play would put Sash much ahead of Sims. Come on dude, Sims is a stud, just plays on a team/defense that is mediocre. Because Lindy's and Phil Steele say Sash is better doesn't mean he is, neither of those guys even know who Sims is, even though they should.
And on Stanzi, does everyone here remember him throwing a couple picks last year as well? Ricky is far from a perfect QB that people make him out to be, he makes PLENTY of mistakes, and he will give ISU some chances on Saturday as well. He always does, just have to take advantage when he does, like Iowa did last year when AA made mistakes.
You mean Iowa's line has a great chance to be even more dominant than last years. How is Iowa's line SOOOOO dominant already. You can't base **** of the EIU game's. That was like 1 vs 4's in a scrimmge. What if Clayborn goes down? What if they just aren't as productive? Once again, Hawk fans playing the season on paper before they've even played a game. Jesus, there's idiots over on their board saying they don't see how boise will move the ball on them in the NC. Why would you make predictions like that? You are gonna look like stupid as usual after you lose to Arizona.
Who's defense was on the field more last year? Meaning, who had a greater opportunity to make more plays?
Both are very good players. Once again, Sash's athletic ability is downgraded because he is white to some.
I know. Actually, we should use a round historical number like 11 or something (whatever makes ISU look like they've been uber-competitive or something. I lose track because the number has just increased by one for the past few years.)
I think that is stupid as well, but Iowa fans think they own this series so we do have to remind them ISU has won a few games along the way.
The funny thing about this whole Sims vs Sasth is many have compaired Sims to Bob Sanders, even Iowa fans. Does this mean Stash is better than Sanders?
That may be one of the most delusional comments I've ever read on here. Does anyone actually believe there are fans out there holding firm to the belief that Ricky Stanzi doesn't make mistakes?
That's like saying A Rob only had 34 yards rushing without the 63 yard break away. He probably would've had some yards in a continuing drive if he didn't break it.
Based on the college FFL that I drafted last week it was apparent that the Big XII had way more potent offenses than the Big 10. (We drafted only Big 10 and 12 teams). It was ridiculous how all sites had 20 of the top 25 from the Big XII.
Just saying that stats just don't work when comparing these two athletes as they play in different systems with different teams against completely different competition.
Any consensus thoughts?
QB - push based on different systems?
RB - push...each school likes their guy better? Hampton unknown at this point.
WR - Iowa
OL - Iowa...although closer than people in IC think IMO.
TE - Iowa
DL - Iowa
LB - Iowa...once again closer than people think.
DB - push...looking forward to watching Sims with all this debate.
QB - push based on different systems?
RB - push...each school likes their guy better? Hampton unknown at this point.
WR - Iowa
OL - Iowa...although closer than people in IC think IMO.
TE - Iowa
DL - Iowa
LB - Iowa...once again closer than people think.
DB - push...looking forward to watching Sims with all this debate.
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