*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****

[Tank]

The wildcard in the shakeup is Notre Dame and the B1G. The conference has stated they're happy at 12 ... but that was before Armageddon in the B12 and expansion elsewhere.

Does ND take a spot on the way to 16? That leaves 3 potential opening for B12 orphans. You'd have to assume Mizzou and KU would take 2 of the 3 spots. That leaves the last spot between ISU and K-State.

And where is the NCAA in all this? Haven't heard a peep from them the entire time. Or did I miss something?

Even if the Big 10 were to snag Mizzou and KU, who's to say that ISU or K State are even being thought of? The Big 10 would now have a school in Missouri and Kansas and already have one in Iowa and Nebraska so I would think they expand East for their last pick to a school like Rutgers, Maryland or West Virginia b/c those schools now open up another state to the Big 10 and then in turn more TV sets.

 

[HoopsTournament]

Its a little funny that the same media that thinks everyone is going to be in a race to 16 is the same media that thinks big east goes no more than 12

Because it's the same media that just assumes that the Big East is going to crumble too. That is why I think Big East will go to 16 as Big FU to the everyone else showing that they are going to be the first REAL super conference.

 

[Wesley]

Even if the Big 10 were to snag Mizzou and KU, who's to say that ISU or K State are even being thought of? The Big 10 would now have a school in Missouri and Kansas and already have one in Iowa and Nebraska so I would think they expand East for their last pick to a school like Rutgers, Maryland or West Virginia b/c those schools now open up another state to the Big 10 and then in turn more TV sets.

Yeah, come on B1G, do something. Otherwise David Boren will be the man who drove old North Dixie down.

 

[HoopsTournament]

Even if the Big 10 were to snag Mizzou and KU, who's to say that ISU or K State are even being thought of? The Big 10 would now have a school in Missouri and Kansas and already have one in Iowa and Nebraska so I would think they expand East for their last pick to a school like Rutgers, Maryland or West Virginia b/c those schools now open up another state to the Big 10 and then in turn more TV sets.

Big Ten will not expand to 16 unless ND is one of them. ND will not join a conference unless the BCS disbands and there is a playoff excluding them. It is not the super conferences that ND is concerned about, it is exclusion from a national championship that could possibly be created by one.

 

[hawkfan]

I think we'll have a spot waiting should everything go bad. Consider this, The SEC needs a 14th member. There is very little chance that any ACC schools get raided by the SEC (reasons were outlined well by Frank the Tank). I completely agree for the one simple reason that it is easier to go undefeated on the road to a national championship game through the ACC than through a bigger SEC. That leaves the SEC with two options for teams outside of their current footpring - take Mizzou, or take one of the Big East football members. Either way, there would be one Big East chair left when the music stops.

Read this article from Frank:

The Jump to Conclusions Game: Why Angry Aggies Aren’t Enough to Move Texas A&M to the SEC « FRANK THE TANK’S SLANT

I enjoy reading Frank's stuff, don't get me wrong, but the guy has been wrong on pretty much every conclusion he's come to about conference expansion - I suspect he's wrong about this as well.

The Big Ten & SEC can only go to 16 by raiding the ACC. The reality is, there aren't any schools in the Big East that deliver major markets to the point that the BTN would be on basic cable in those said markets - in order to get that market penetration, the Big Ten & SEC will have to look to the ACC.

Schools like North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Virginia, Va Tech, & Maryland can provide the type of market penetration those two conferences are looking for in brand new states. I see it as almost a certainty that the SEC or Big Ten (and probably both) grab at least a couple of the aforementioned schools, and perhaps all of them.

Keep in mind the ACC TV contract is nearly $10M less per year than what each Big Ten school brings in ($12.9M per school according to link below).

ESPN outbids Fox for ACC television rights - Triangle Business Journal

Maryland is in all kinds of trouble with its AD budget - that school would likely jump at a chance to get in the Big Ten.

Maryland athletics department faces financial challenges - The Washington Post

As we saw last summer, all it takes is one or two schools thinking about leaving and all hell can break loose inside a conference. This is the reason I think the "unity in the ACC" is often overstated. Once one or two schools even start talking to another conference, all of a sudden everyone gets nervous and begins exploring their options - it is a total domino effect. Obviously the Big 12 is less stable than the ACC, but there is a HUGE revenue disparity between the ACC & the SEC/Big Ten.

No doubt that the big prize from the ACC would be the Duke/UNC combo. The SEC has no shot at those two schools due to academic reasons, but the Big Ten, who would love to have the BTN on all those TV sets in NC on basic cable, could pitch them a pretty good strong sell. There were rumors floating around a while back that Delaney had UNC/Duke on "his radar", and until I see differently, I'm going to assume that Duke/UNC/ND are the primary targets going forward for the Big Ten.

 

[hawkfan]

Big Ten will not expand to 16 unless ND is one of them. ND will not join a conference unless the BCS disbands and there is a playoff excluding them. It is not the super conferences that ND is concerned about, it is exclusion from a national championship that could possibly be created by one.

The point of forming superconferences, in the minds of the conference head honchos, is to create separation between the BCS leagues & the mid majors.

I'm fairly confident that if four super conferences form, you'll have to be in one to play for a national title - and I'm really confident that is what was planned last summer.

Why do you think ND was close to playing ball last year? They saw that the PAC 10 was potentially going to 16, and ND figured that once super conferences formed, they would have no shot at a national title without being in one.

Eventually, I can see a system where Rose Bowl is PAC 16 Vs. B1G champion & the Sugar Bowl is the SEC Vs. "The Best of Everyone Else Super Conference" and the winners of those two bowl games play off for a national title the following week. In the super conference world, there is no room for independents - that is what will ultimately force ND into a conference (that, and losing its sweetheart non revenue sports deal with the Big East).

 

[snowcraig2.0]

Yeah, because when I think of the Big 10, I think of Maryland. What a joke.

 

[CycloneErik]

Yeah, because when I think of the Big 10, I think of Maryland. What a joke.

Or North Carolina. Or Duke.

When I think Pac-12, I think Oklahoma. When I think SEC, I think Missouri. It's as Southeast as you can get.

The whole thing is a joke.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

[SPORTS] – What Should the ACC Do? « Who Does


http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?25950-A-New-ACC



Interesting to read from the ACC perspective.

 

[hawkin]

Found this New York Post article on a Jayhawk site RE: Big East.


http://m.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/real_big_east_j6icSyYnLFtDYQJpeeT4cN?utm_campaign=Post10&utm_source=Post10Alpha

Big East could add Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri


With the Pac-12 on the verge of expanding to 16 teams and the SEC poised to add Texas A&M, officials on the presidential, athletic director and conference levels in the Big East, ACC and Big 12 have been burning up the phone lines over the last 72 hours.
The results of those talks could forever change the makeup of the Big East, The Post has learned.
According to multiple sources, the most likely scenario -- should Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech leave the Big 12 for the Pac-12 -- would bring Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri to the Big East.
That would create a super conference with 20 schools playing all sports, including 12 FBS football members.
"Obviously we're monitoring the landscape," Big East commissioner John Marinatto told The Post. "We're very aware of the situation and will continue to do what's in the best interests of the Big East Conference."
Marinatto, who sources said sent an email to all of his conference presidents and athletic directors, would offer no specifics and declined to comment on any school. But the league, which faces crucial TV negotiations in November 2012, is looking to best position itself for those talks.
The 12-and-20 alignment would finally give the members that play football a sense of security. The basketball schools would somewhat begrudgingly accept 20 members, knowing it would ensure the league's survival by expanding the league's footprint into the Midwest.
But there are other scenarios that can't be ruled out.
Although Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany recently said in published reports the possible expansion of the Pac-12 does not change his league's approach or timetable for any expansion, several sources said the Big Ten is interested in Maryland of the ACC.
It's a long shot that Maryland, an ACC charter member, would leave that league, but money speaks louder than league affiliation these days.
If the ACC lost Maryland to the Big Ten and the SEC took an ACC program as its 14th member, a possible Big East-ACC "merger" would create an East Coast super conference.
When the Big 12 nearly lost five members to the Pac-12 last year, the Big East had an agreement in principle with Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State and Iowa State. The Big East has since added TCU, making Iowa State expendable.
Missouri has dearly wanted an invite to the Big Ten, but one doesn't seem forthcoming.
The SEC might be interested in Missouri, which borders Arkansas, but sources told The Post Missouri sees a better cultural fit with the Big East than the SEC.
In order for the Big East to add a member, a three-quarters vote is needed.
TCU, which joins the league next season, does not have a vote.
That means 12 of 16 schools would have to approve the additions of Missouri, Kansas and Kansas State.

 

[Tank]

Yeah, because when I think of the Big 10, I think of Maryland. What a joke.

Yeah b/c only 2 years ago if somebody told you that the Big12 was probably going to break apart and disband your remark would have also been what a joke!

 

[hawkfan]

Found this New York Post article on a Jayhawk site RE: Big East.


http://m.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/real_big_east_j6icSyYnLFtDYQJpeeT4cN?utm_campaign=Post10&utm_source=Post10Alpha

Big East could add Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri


With the Pac-12 on the verge of expanding to 16 teams and the SEC poised to add Texas A&M, officials on the presidential, athletic director and conference levels in the Big East, ACC and Big 12 have been burning up the phone lines over the last 72 hours.
The results of those talks could forever change the makeup of the Big East, The Post has learned.
According to multiple sources, the most likely scenario -- should Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech leave the Big 12 for the Pac-12 -- would bring Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri to the Big East.
That would create a super conference with 20 schools playing all sports, including 12 FBS football members.
"Obviously we're monitoring the landscape," Big East commissioner John Marinatto told The Post. "We're very aware of the situation and will continue to do what's in the best interests of the Big East Conference."
Marinatto, who sources said sent an email to all of his conference presidents and athletic directors, would offer no specifics and declined to comment on any school. But the league, which faces crucial TV negotiations in November 2012, is looking to best position itself for those talks.
The 12-and-20 alignment would finally give the members that play football a sense of security. The basketball schools would somewhat begrudgingly accept 20 members, knowing it would ensure the league's survival by expanding the league's footprint into the Midwest.
But there are other scenarios that can't be ruled out.
Although Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany recently said in published reports the possible expansion of the Pac-12 does not change his league's approach or timetable for any expansion, several sources said the Big Ten is interested in Maryland of the ACC.
It's a long shot that Maryland, an ACC charter member, would leave that league, but money speaks louder than league affiliation these days.
If the ACC lost Maryland to the Big Ten and the SEC took an ACC program as its 14th member, a possible Big East-ACC "merger" would create an East Coast super conference.
When the Big 12 nearly lost five members to the Pac-12 last year, the Big East had an agreement in principle with Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State and Iowa State. The Big East has since added TCU, making Iowa State expendable.
Missouri has dearly wanted an invite to the Big Ten, but one doesn't seem forthcoming.
The SEC might be interested in Missouri, which borders Arkansas, but sources told The Post Missouri sees a better cultural fit with the Big East than the SEC.
In order for the Big East to add a member, a three-quarters vote is needed.
TCU, which joins the league next season, does not have a vote.
That means 12 of 16 schools would have to approve the additions of Missouri, Kansas and Kansas State.

As Al mentioned, ISU fans need to pray that the SEC takes Mizzou.

 

[Wesley]

Read this article from Frank:

The Jump to Conclusions Game: Why Angry Aggies Aren’t Enough to Move Texas A&M to the SEC « FRANK THE TANK’S SLANT

I enjoy reading Frank's stuff, don't get me wrong, but the guy has been wrong on pretty much every conclusion he's come to about conference expansion - I suspect he's wrong about this as well.

The Big Ten & SEC can only go to 16 by raiding the ACC. The reality is, there aren't any schools in the Big East that deliver major markets to the point that the BTN would be on basic cable in those said markets - in order to get that market penetration, the Big Ten & SEC will have to look to the ACC.

Schools like North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Virginia, Va Tech, & Maryland can provide the type of market penetration those two conferences are looking for in brand new states. I see it as almost a certainty that the SEC or Big Ten (and probably both) grab at least a couple of the aforementioned schools, and perhaps all of them.

Keep in mind the ACC TV contract is nearly $10M less per year than what each Big Ten school brings in ($12.9M per school according to link below).

ESPN outbids Fox for ACC television rights - Triangle Business Journal

Maryland is in all kinds of trouble with its AD budget - that school would likely jump at a chance to get in the Big Ten.

Maryland athletics department faces financial challenges - The Washington Post

As we saw last summer, all it takes is one or two schools thinking about leaving and all hell can break loose inside a conference. This is the reason I think the "unity in the ACC" is often overstated. Once one or two schools even start talking to another conference, all of a sudden everyone gets nervous and begins exploring their options - it is a total domino effect. Obviously the Big 12 is less stable than the ACC, but there is a HUGE revenue disparity between the ACC & the SEC/Big Ten.

No doubt that the big prize from the ACC would be the Duke/UNC combo. The SEC has no shot at those two schools due to academic reasons, but the Big Ten, who would love to have the BTN on all those TV sets in NC on basic cable, could pitch them a pretty good strong sell. There were rumors floating around a while back that Delaney had UNC/Duke on "his radar", and until I see differently, I'm going to assume that Duke/UNC/ND are the primary targets going forward for the Big Ten.

So, unless Mike Slive can produce some Casey Anthony photos, we should assume that the SEC has terms just like everyone else: the SEC is stuck with its deals until 2024 unless its TV partners willingly give it more money prior to that. This brings us to the next point…

 

[snowcraig2.0]

A couple good ideas in this thread.


http://collegesportsinfo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1700&p=57887


I really like the idea of the leftover AQ teams taking up the Big 12 mantra. Seems like a group of schools that could really work together.

 

[LutherClone]

Found this New York Post article on a Jayhawk site RE: Big East.


http://m.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/real_big_east_j6icSyYnLFtDYQJpeeT4cN?utm_campaign=Post10&utm_source=Post10Alpha

Big East could add Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri


With the Pac-12 on the verge of expanding to 16 teams and the SEC poised to add Texas A&M, officials on the presidential, athletic director and conference levels in the Big East, ACC and Big 12 have been burning up the phone lines over the last 72 hours.
The results of those talks could forever change the makeup of the Big East, The Post has learned.
According to multiple sources, the most likely scenario -- should Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech leave the Big 12 for the Pac-12 -- would bring Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri to the Big East.
That would create a super conference with 20 schools playing all sports, including 12 FBS football members.
"Obviously we're monitoring the landscape," Big East commissioner John Marinatto told The Post. "We're very aware of the situation and will continue to do what's in the best interests of the Big East Conference."
Marinatto, who sources said sent an email to all of his conference presidents and athletic directors, would offer no specifics and declined to comment on any school. But the league, which faces crucial TV negotiations in November 2012, is looking to best position itself for those talks.
The 12-and-20 alignment would finally give the members that play football a sense of security. The basketball schools would somewhat begrudgingly accept 20 members, knowing it would ensure the league's survival by expanding the league's footprint into the Midwest.
But there are other scenarios that can't be ruled out.
Although Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany recently said in published reports the possible expansion of the Pac-12 does not change his league's approach or timetable for any expansion, several sources said the Big Ten is interested in Maryland of the ACC.
It's a long shot that Maryland, an ACC charter member, would leave that league, but money speaks louder than league affiliation these days.
If the ACC lost Maryland to the Big Ten and the SEC took an ACC program as its 14th member, a possible Big East-ACC "merger" would create an East Coast super conference.
When the Big 12 nearly lost five members to the Pac-12 last year, the Big East had an agreement in principle with Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State and Iowa State. The Big East has since added TCU, making Iowa State expendable.
Missouri has dearly wanted an invite to the Big Ten, but one doesn't seem forthcoming.
The SEC might be interested in Missouri, which borders Arkansas, but sources told The Post Missouri sees a better cultural fit with the Big East than the SEC.
In order for the Big East to add a member, a three-quarters vote is needed.
TCU, which joins the league next season, does not have a vote.
That means 12 of 16 schools would have to approve the additions of Missouri, Kansas and Kansas State.

Again, this is about money, not cultural fits. If it were about culture, Iowa State and Mizzou would have been in the B1G a long time ago. We need to pray that:

A: Mizzou goes with aTm to the SEC (I think this is the most likely scenario)
B: Texas goes independant and KU/KSU replace UT/TT to the PAC-16. Then either Mizzou to the SEC or TT to the SEC (douuubtful) and the three orphans to the BE
C:Lobby like hell to get into the BE before K-State. I think we could do it as we are a better geographical fit with basketball schools DePaul, Marquette and ND (who must be appeased to vote for the expanded conference), not that much worse than KState athletically and we are a head and shoulders better educational institution (appeases the academic schools like Georgetown, ND, etc)..

In other words, we aren't sunk yet and this has a long way to go before it's finished... not that anyone didn't know that.

 

[JD720]

As Al mentioned, ISU fans need to pray that the SEC takes Mizzou.

Or a big east school like West Virginia. I actually think this would be the better scenario as I'd like to see the remaining Big 12 north schools end up in the same conference, wherever that may be.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

As Al mentioned, ISU fans need to pray that the SEC takes Mizzou.

I disagree. ISU is a better choice in nearly every way than KSU.

Plus, why wouldn't the Big East just take all 5 Big 12 leftovers? ISU offers a new market, and excellent academics. Baylor would give the Big East a better presence in Texas, and give TCU a natural in conference rival.

 

[hawkfan]

Or a big east school like West Virginia. I actually think this would be the better scenario as I'd like to see the remaining Big 12 north schools end up in the same conference, wherever that may be.

True....WVU to the SEC would actually probably be better for the ISU.

 

[Wesley]

So will Beebe have a job in three weeks per what Boren does? Will we care at that point?

After all the dust settles down, I hope to read a book on the subject matter of what went on behinds the scenes the last year and a half.

 

[Al_4_State]

Yeah.

I really think the Big East would just go 14 here. Maybe throw in ECU and UCF for 16.

With the SEC needing 14 teams, unless that 14th team was ND, it's going to open up a Big East spot for ISU some how or another. Whether that's via taking an ACC team who in turn takes a Big East team, whether it's Missouri, or whether it's WVU, it will open something.