*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****

[HFCS]

A 10 team league works just fine, so long as all member schools want to be part of it.

The problem with the Big 12 having 10 teams isn't that 10 is inherently weak, the problem is the high level of mistrust within the league. A 10 team league isn't weak if it's unified. That's just a media perception thing.

I don't disagree with this if you think there's no reason a 10 team league has to have a 9 game schedule.

The Big Ten was stable at 10 and 11 with an 8 game schedule. As you pointed out it was 10/11 teams that clearly never wanted to leave each other. It was also the same size or larger than most conferences for that period.

The only place having the hardest schedule in the nation every year benefits ISU is in our computer rankings. The few seasons the Pac Ten did it they dominated computer rankings, their teams didn't necessarily thrive on it in terms of cracking human polls though.

9 Big 12 games with no byes including OU and Texas every year + Iowa means ISU on average will have the toughest schedule in the nation over a long enough time frame.

 

[Al_4_State]

I don't disagree with this if you think there's no reason a 10 team league has to have a 9 game schedule.

The Big Ten was stable at 10 and 11 with an 8 game schedule. As you pointed out it was 10/11 teams that clearly never wanted to leave each other. It was also the same size or larger than most conferences for that period.

The only place having the hardest schedule in the nation every year benefits ISU is in our computer rankings. The few seasons the Pac Ten did it they dominated computer rankings, their teams didn't necessarily thrive on it in terms of cracking human polls though.

9 Big 12 games with no byes including OU and Texas every year + Iowa means ISU on average will have the toughest schedule in the nation over a long enough time frame. If Texas and A&M keep playing every year no matter what they might tie us for it or edge us out.

I'd love an 8 game schedule.

I'm really just saying that size is fairly irrelevant in terms of stability. 10 can be stable, if those member institutions are committed to each other. It doesn't matter that the media insists that 10 is unstable.

The Big 12's instability isn't a result of it's size, it's a result of the member institutions lack of commitment.

 

[HFCS]

I'd love an 8 game schedule.

I'm really just saying that size is fairly irrelevant in terms of stability. 10 can be stable, if those member institutions are committed to each other. It doesn't matter that the media insists that 10 is unstable.

The Big 12's instability isn't a result of it's size, it's a result of the member institutions lack of commitment.

But the question is, would you trust that our 9 or 10 can transform into trust worthy allies vs. moving to 12 or 14 and assuming some of them will always be looking to put in a knife in the back.

10 loyal members would be ideal. But 12-14 that may or may not be loyal seems much more realistic and safer for ISU to me after seeing 3 of our "brothers" bolt (2 of them being 100% hypocrites on revenue sharing), 4 of them change their mind about bolting, and Missouri being probably the most two faced athletic team in sports history by now.

 

[justcynn]

I'd love an 8 game schedule.

I'm really just saying that size is fairly irrelevant in terms of stability. 10 can be stable, if those member institutions are committed to each other. It doesn't matter that the media insists that 10 is unstable.

The Big 12's instability isn't a result of it's size, it's a result of the member institutions lack of commitment.

History has also proven no conference in which Texas is a member has ever been stable, so that being the case - I really hope the membership holds firm on what they want AND expand even if it lessens the pot for everyone. The LHN is the only thing that seems untouchable in this to Dodds, so get everything else including expansion beyond the 10 teams. Texas seems to have a long term plan that may or may not include the big 12, seemingly includes Notre Dame though, use the leverage you have - they need a place to play before their plan can come to fruition, and get stability in numbers while there is a chance. The big 12 going to 16 now almost assures it will be one of the long term players in Realignment...I know they won't - but at least get back to 12

 

[HFCS]

History has also proven no conference in which Texas is a member has ever been stable, so that being the case - I really hope the membership holds firm on what they want AND expand even if it lessens the pot for everyone. The LHN is the only thing that seems untouchable in this to Dodds, so get everything else including expansion beyond the 10 teams. Texas seems to have a long term plan that may or may not include the big 12, seemingly includes Notre Dame though, use the leverage you have - they need a place to play before their plan can come to fruition, and get stability in numbers while there is a chance. The big 12 going to 16 now almost assures it will be one of the long term players in Realignment...I know they won't - but at least get back to 12

Going on your assumption of Texas long term plan (which could easily be true)...

If OU is given the choice of joining the Pac Ten or SEC vs staying in the Big 12

would they be more likely to stay in the Big 12 if the lineup is:
KSU, KU, OSU, ISU, Mizzou, TTech, Baylor

or
those 7, plus BYU, Louisville, WVU and maybe TCU & Cincy

I think they're more likely to stay if we add BYU and WVU and give them two more football powers, but not juggernauts. BYU would be consistently top 25 if they join an AQ conference, they crack it about half the years playing in the WAC and MWC.

They wouldn't want to stay in a league where the next biggest football names are only Tech, Mizzou and OSU, when they've played all these years with Nebraska, Texas and A&M on their schedule.

 

[kilroy]

But the question is, would you trust that our 9 or 10 can transform into trust worthy allies vs. moving to 12 or 14 and assuming some of them will always be looking to put in a knife in the back.

10 loyal members would be ideal. But 12-14 that may or may not be loyal seems much more realistic and safer for ISU to me after seeing 3 of our "brothers" bolt (2 of them being 100% hypocrites on revenue sharing), 4 of them change their mind about bolting, and Missouri being probably the most two faced athletic team in sports history by now.

This!!

Plus Louvil and Cincy are in relative proximity to us. As much as I would like us to ad WV, I think its a little of a geographic stretch. I would also much rather have BYU than TCU. But I would rather have TCU then Tx.

But as said before with the realignment, "If an idea involves common sense, throw it out".

Also I would much rather play 8 conference games, its just a fact that our record would improve (should).

I also read some where that last year the BigXII trademarked the BigXIV or Big14 name, which one I dont know. Not for sure if thats true or just a twitter rumor. But I wouldnt mind 14 or back to 12. Im not a fan of ten.

I few new rivalries would freshen up a league I think, but ALL new rivalries would be stupid.

 

[kilroy]

Also do the change the name or logo, something along the B1G lines or more major.

 

[HFCS]

This!!

Plus Louvil and Cincy are in relative proximity to us. As much as I would like us to ad WV, I think its a little of a geographic stretch. I would also much rather have BYU than TCU. But I would rather have TCU then Tx.

But as said before with the realignment, "If an idea involves common sense, throw it out".

Also I would much rather play 8 conference games, its just a fact that our record would improve (should).

I also read some where that last year the BigXII trademarked the BigXIV or Big14 name, which one I dont know. Not for sure if thats true or just a twitter rumor. But I wouldnt mind 14 or back to 12. Im not a fan of ten.

I few new rivalries would freshen up a league I think, but ALL new rivalries would be stupid.

We're more or less on the same page. WVU gets you another team that has been in football NC picture (Cincy's one year in that discussion was just a cake schedule). Cincy gets you the same basketball quality as WVU and a better geographic fit. Cincy is also in a huge recruiting hotbed compared to WVU and might partly make up for the slight hit we took letting the SEC into Texas.

Cincy and WVU both have positives and negatives. The scenario where I would want TCU is if we get both Cincy and WVU and need a 14th to even divisions. At that point I don't mind TCU and their recent FB cache even though they don't add much in basketball and footprint.

I really am surprised if Missouri is staying that the SEC didn't take WVU. I can't accept that they want 13 teams and it makes me curious who they think they'll get for 14. The ACC teams seem more locked in by the day. WVU is easily their best Big East fit in nearly every way.

West Virginia has wrestling, and BYU used to have a good wrestling program. It would be awesome if Big 12 could get wrestling programs back up to 5 or 6.

 

[kilroy]

We're more or less on the same page. WVU gets you another team that has been in football NC picture (Cincy's one year in that discussion was just a cake schedule). Cincy gets you the same basketball quality as WVU and a better geographic fit. Cincy is also in a huge recruiting hotbed compared to WVU and might partly make up for the slight hit we took letting the SEC into Texas.

Cincy and WVU both have positives and negatives. The scenario where I would want TCU is if we get both Cincy and WVU and need a 14th to round divisions to 14. At that point I don't mind TCU and their recent FB cache even though they don't add much in basketball and footprint.

I really am surprised if Missouri is staying that the SEC didn't take WVU. I can't accept that they want 13 teams and it makes me curious who they think they'll get for 14. The ACC teams seem more locked in by the day. WVU is easily their best Big East fit in nearly every way.

These are great points, I really like the recruiting points. Lets do this.

 

[ISUAgronomist]

BrentZwerneman Brent Zwerneman
New A&M chancellor John Sharp following Midnight Yell Practice told me to expect an A&M to SEC announcement "shortly." No elaboration.

 

[ISUAgronomist]

I also read some where that last year the BigXII trademarked the BigXIV or Big14 name, which one I dont know. Not for sure if thats true or just a twitter rumor. But I wouldnt mind 14 or back to 12. Im not a fan of ten.

The Big 12 Conference does own the TM for Big 14 Conference.

 

[HFCS]

The Big 12 Conference does own the TM for Big 14 Conference.

It was linked in here.

Might want to hang onto both and see about who owns 11, 15, 16 and even 9 and 7. I'm assuming if they own 14 they still own 8.wink:wink:wink:

 

[snowcraig2.0]

14 just doesn't work for scheduling.

 

[ISUAgronomist]

Might want to hang onto both and see about who owns 11, 15, 16 and even 9 and 7. I'm assuming if they own 14 they still own 8.wink:wink:wink:

They still own Big 8 Conference.

All other numbers are open.

The Big 12 also owns: Big 12 Network (first filed - Aug. 2006) and Big 12 Channel (first filed - Aug. 2006)

 

[Al_4_State]

14 just doesn't work for scheduling.

Sure it does. Play 6 games in your division, and two from the cross. You don't play the other side much, but that's the way this **** works anyways.

 

[kilroy]

Sure it does. Play 6 games in your division, and two from the cross. You don't play the other side much, but that's the way this **** works anyways.

This I like!

So since SEC is making annoncment how did they talk baylor off the ledge?"

 

[Rickybaby]

I'm wondering if with the new commish if things are going to drag to stop and then be slowly drawn out until they can make rational decisions. As long as MU doesn't bolt we should be OK.

I'm like everybody else (well most everybody else) in that I'd like to see us expand back up to 12, solve the LHN business, get major penalties in place so it makes it difficult to leave, etc. We were hoping decisions would be made and we could get all this uncertainty over and move on ... now I'm not sure that is going to happen.

Not sure if that is good or bad (strike while the iron is hot?)

 

[Cydkar]

14 just doesn't work for scheduling.

I'd much rather deal with the unbalanced schedule that 14 teams requires than the 9 game conference schedule that we are involved with now. The 9 game schedule is murder on teams like ISU, KU, KSU, and T Tech.

 

[kilroy]

I'm wondering if with the new commish if things are going to drag to stop and then be slowly drawn out until they can make rational decisions. As long as MU doesn't bolt we should be OK.

I'm like everybody else (well most everybody else) in that I'd like to see us expand back up to 12, solve the LHN business, get major penalties in place so it makes it difficult to leave, etc. We were hoping decisions would be made and we could get all this uncertainty over and move on ... now I'm not sure that is going to happen.

Not sure if that is good or bad (strike while the iron is hot?)

Id like to see somewhere around 100 million, but 50-100 million would work. Also slowing down will probably happen, especially since the BE isnt going to let school out without the 27 month wait. SO as much as we want the other schools in we'll have to wait. And put up with the 9game schedule.

But nothing will be held to with out it written in BLOOD and no **** clauses.

 

[sp8815]

Id like to see somewhere around 100 million, but 50-100 million would work. Also slowing down will probably happen, especially since the BE isnt going to let school out without the 27 month wait. SO as much as we want the other schools in we'll have to wait. And put up with the 9game schedule.

But nothing will be held to with out it written in BLOOD and no **** clauses.

The 6 year grant of rights on first and second tier right basically amounts to a 70-100M buyout that decreases the closer we get to the end of the contract.