NBA: Paul Pierce - HOF?

[Clones85']

They always lump in the BIG 3 as 1st ballot Hall of Famer's and I don't get it. It's bothered me for years. Why does everyone just assume Paul Pierce is a 1st ballot HOF'er?

Never been a superstar
Never been 1st team All NBA
Only been 2nd team All NBA 1 time in career
Only been 3rd team All NBA 3 times in career
Didn't do anything in the playoffs until KG, Allen, and Rondo came to town

Career averages are solid
22 ppg, 6 rebounds, 3.9 assists, 1.5 steals

His resume is shockingly similiar to Vince Carter minus the very obvious and important ring. Now I think he's better than Carter but statistically and by All NBA standards they are the same player. I don't think anyone considers Carter a Hall of Fame player, do they?

How about Tracy McGrady? From 2000 to 2007, McGrady was a better player than Pierce. Difference is that he played for Orlando instead of Boston.

I'm guessing most disagree with me but just seeing if anyone agrees.

 

[bpmdu]

You seem to be forgetting one NBA title and one NBA finals MVP. Not to mention dozens of Celtics team records. He's consistently played at a high level for basically his entire career. Granted, I'm not saying he's a shoe in for first ballot HOF but I think he should be considered borderline.

 

[xboxfever]

Allen and Garnett are first ballot guys. Pierce is a 3rd or 4th ballot guy.

 

[Clones85']

You seem to be forgetting one NBA title and one NBA finals MVP. Not to mention dozens of Celtics team records. He's consistently played at a high level for basically his entire career. Granted, I'm not saying he's a shoe in for first ballot HOF but I think he should be considered borderline.

I'm not forgetting it and mentioned it. No doubt that is big. Give Pierce credit, he is pretty clutch, I've just never thought of him as a top 10 player in the league and thus it's hard for me to see him as a Hall of Fame player. Granted I don't know the guidelines or how many can be selected a year.

And I agree on the borderline HOF, but people act like he's a shoe in, and that is what I don't get. KG is a shoe in. Ray Allen being the alltime 3 point shooter probably makes him a shoe in. Although his career has been similiar to Pierces

 

[erikbj]

Pierce is in before Allen.

 

[trajanJ]

His numbers are very similar to Vince Carter. He's been an all-star a couple more years and been 3rd team All-NBA a few more times, but other than that they are extremely similar. The biggest difference is the ring. That thing is very heavy, and the fact that he was an extremely important part of winning that ring. Finals MVP far out-weighs anything that Carter did. Playing at Boston for his entire career won't hurt him either.

 

[State43]

Are you allowed to be stabbed and be in the HOF?

 

[Clones85']

Pierce is in before Allen.

I go back and forth on that, but b/c Allen holds an all time record, I think he'd get in over Pierce. Both have been great players but never superstars. And actually Pierce probably has a slightly better resume. So I'm changing my mind as I type! :smile:

 

[brentblum]

I go back and forth on that, but b/c Allen holds an all time record, I think he'd get in over Pierce. Both have been great players but never superstars. And actually Pierce probably has a slightly better resume. So I'm changing my mind as I type! :smile:

Pierce and Allen both get in. But Pierce gets the nod first.

I raise you a question Clones85, better all-time PG...Steve Nash or Jason Kidd?

 

[Clark]

Good debate topic. I tend to lean to them all three being hall of famers but Pierce would be #3 on the list for me. The other two have calling cards of being one of the best defensive players ever (Garnett) and one of the best shooters ever (Allen)

 

[rholtgraves]

If Reggie Miller is first ballot HOF then so is Paul Peirce. It is stupid to say that Peirce didn't win anything until he got KG and Allen. Since when has one guy won a championship without other top players around them?

 

[Clark]

Pierce and Allen both get in. But Pierce gets the nod first.

I raise you a question Clones85, better all-time PG...Steve Nash or Jason Kidd?

Kidd. Three finals appearances and those Jersey teams were much worse than those good Suns teams. The East was terrible when Kidd was making those finals with Jersey though so that should be given some consideration.

 

[Clones85']

Pierce and Allen both get in. But Pierce gets the nod first.

I raise you a question Clones85, better all-time PG...Steve Nash or Jason Kidd?

Ha Blum. Good debate. Did I ever get you over on my side with the Jason Kidd argument? Better rebounder, more assists, and actually a great defender where as Nash can't keep you out of the lane!!!

We all know you love scoring over winning though. That's why your a Dana Holgerson boy!!

 

[Clones85']

If Reggie Miller is first ballot HOF then so is Paul Peirce. It is stupid to say that Peirce didn't win anything until he got KG and Allen. Since when has one guy won a championship without other top players around them?

Ok. Fair enough. Just throwing it all out there.

 

[xboxfever]

Pierce is not in over Allen. Some of you are either new to the NBA or you don't remember how good Allen used to be. He is also the NBA's all time leading 3 point shooter. Allen is a first ballot hall of famer.

 

[rholtgraves]

I also think Vince Carter has a shot to make HOF some day. His first 10 years in the league were pretty darn good.

 

[CyJack13]

I also think Vince Carter has a shot to make HOF some day. His first 10 years in the league were pretty darn good.

Vince Carter has no shot at the hall of fame. You need more than one memorable playoff moment to become a hall of famer.

 

[brentblum]

Pierce is not in over Allen. Some of you are either new to the NBA or you don't remember how good Allen used to be. He is also the NBA's all time leading 3 point shooter. Allen is a first ballot hall of famer.

Basketball Reference (which is a phenomenal web site) has a stat called HOF probability. They have Pierce's probability at 98 percent (7th best among active players) and Allen at 94 percent (9th best). So by that parameter they are very close. Here is the list.

Interesting stuff.

 

[rholtgraves]

Pierce is not in over Allen. Some of you are either new to the NBA or you don't remember how good Allen used to be. He is also the NBA's all time leading 3 point shooter. Allen is a first ballot hall of famer.

Maybe you don't realize how good Peirce is.

 

[Clones85']

I also think Vince Carter has a shot to make HOF some day. His first 10 years in the league were pretty darn good.

What do you think about Tracy McGrady than? His career was much much better than Carter's and Pierces (minus the obvious ring)