Paul Rhoads Recruiting Lesson
- Thread starter Aclone
- Start date
This speculative tale you have spun is more ridiculous than the 5 in your original post put together.
That's why the staff is recruiting DL's. You should also remember that the staff has said repeatedly that for defensive end, they are only going to take taller guys who fit the mold they want to develop--which a 6'2" Waggoner does not. The 4.75 40 might also fit better for LB than DE.
Believe it or not, this staff is past that whole "manufacture players from whole cloth" stage, the one that McCarney got stuck on. They get good prospects who fit their mold. No more trying to turn sow's ears into silk purses.
And by the way--with all of the signees in the last two classes, we don't need DL's THAT bad. Another reason why CPR is looking for base quality rather than quantity there.
Dont act like teams dont recruit anywhere but TX, FL and CA. Yes those are high concentration areas.
I still fail to see your point. So CPR is good at identifying talent in areas where no one else recruits but when he crosses the border into highly recruited states he all of a sudden forgets what he was doing?
Doesnt make sense.
Im not arguing that there is no room for concern whatsoever, but at some point we need to trust the staff that is responsible for evaluating talent for THEIR team. I dont see how filling up a roster with kids that cant play (not saying this is what is happening) would help them at all?? Are they just trying to get done early so they can have a week of vacation before camp?
That's not the point. Every team recruits TX, FL, and CA. Not every team recruits Iowa. It's one thing to find a guy in your area where other teams don't see them than it is to go down to TX or FL and find a guy who competes at a 5A level, that nobdoy has heard of. There is a HUGE difference.
Once again, and i think I need to reiterate this as most people think those that are concerned are crybabies and whiners, I am very happy with Paul Rhoads and staff. I have a serious mancrush on the guy. I am glad to have Waggoner on board. I am hopeful that he is a player. Go look at the threads of all our commits and I say something nice about them in each thread. I'm simply arguing with the crowd who thinks everything is rosy and stars/offers don't matter. Fact is when comparing our recruiting right now to others, it doesn't look good, and I am comfortable saying that without calling out any of our recruits at this time.
Maybe I'm dense but I'm not sure what your story is meant to say - that this certain coach didn't waste his time b/c he didn't think he had a chance? ISU could offer every kid in the top 100. BUT, all recruits require a time and money commitment from the staff to even have a chance. That said, I think Rhoads knows how to best use his resources to get Big 12 kids that the Alabama's of the world wouldn't look at. Not unlike this Waggoner kid. For every good player like him in Dallas there are 5 others that are faster, more athletic, etc. It doesn't mean Waggoner is no good. And I'm not arguing with you - but it looks like it as I read this. These stars and rankings are baloney once you get past the 5 star kids. NO ONE knows how any of these kids will pan out. But when you get 23 5 and 4's it certainly has shown to help. Again - huge praise to Rhoads as he continues to out coach most of the Big 12.
I think what he was trying to say was that the coaches are aware of players but they aren't aware of what Rivals or anyone says. That's a line of **** really. They know all this stuff. They may not look it up but they know.
Yeah I never said people don't recruit SD. I simply said it's easier for a kid to go unnoticed by certain schools in SD than it is in Dallas, TX. Would you really like to argue that with me?
Derek Farniok was 6'9 315 as a HS senior. You can see him from the moon and thus teams will find out about him, but they didn't b/c his younger brother went to ISU and redshirted.
The problem with this post....which is just a mash up of opinion on opinion...is that its still getting 1 and 2 star talent. WHICH.....by college recruiting standards will not win you many games.
Our recruiting class was at the bottom or near bottom.....where did we finish in the conference? Near the very bottom. The OSU and Iowa wins were great....but we got pounded by Texas, Baylor, Mizzou, TAMU, Oklahoma.....and were 3 plays away from being a 3 win season....and looked awful vs Rutgers.
You can argue that Rivals doesnt evaluate guys correctly 100%.....ok....but every other source pretty much has these guys in the same rank, and ISU near the bottom in recruiting. Im pretty sure i saw someone post a link to how accurate the rankings vs team finish usually end up.
The success of some 2 star talent is not in your favor. For every one of those you find....i can find 100 2 stars that were awful. And do you really want to build a rpogram on that anyway? And going that route.....Carstens and Danielson were walk ons....so by that logic....maybe dont offer scholarships at all?
Our recruiting class was at the bottom or near bottom.....where did we finish in the conference? Near the very bottom. The OSU and Iowa wins were great....but we got pounded by Texas, Baylor, Mizzou, TAMU, Oklahoma.....and were 3 plays away from being a 3 win season....and looked awful vs Rutgers.
You can argue that Rivals doesnt evaluate guys correctly 100%.....ok....but every other source pretty much has these guys in the same rank, and ISU near the bottom in recruiting. Im pretty sure i saw someone post a link to how accurate the rankings vs team finish usually end up.
The success of some 2 star talent is not in your favor. For every one of those you find....i can find 100 2 stars that were awful. And do you really want to build a rpogram on that anyway? And going that route.....Carstens and Danielson were walk ons....so by that logic....maybe dont offer scholarships at all?
You lost me here...what's this related to?
No, what he's saying is that the players that everyone fawns over on national TV (or on recruiting sites) are simply the ones with exposure. There are other players just as good--but not everyone knows about them. Sometimes, you just have to look harder.
That's what CPR is doing. That whole "leave no stone unturned" thing".
LOL! I like you, Trevor. You'll learn.
Of course that's not what I was saying. As you said, that's a line of BS, and would be just plain stupid.
Sorry, guys--off for now. Have a great evening!
Great post, AClone. Recruit bashing does not attract better recruits - and it makes the current recruits feel like crap. What happened to the overwhelmingly welcoming cyclone community? We're sounding like the Hawk fanbase... Get over yourselves and zip your lips!
Mental and physical attributes win football games and I think CPR is OK sacrificing? some of the latter for the former. Ive yet to see stars awarded for mental ability.
One guy that comes to mind for me is Terran Benton. (I know not a CPR recruit but it illustrates the point) First year I saw him on the field I thought to myself what in the world, this guy will be eaten alive, just look at him! Moments later I saw, up close, an undersized Benton take on linemen from his nickel back spot and make a hit on a ball carrier. The look on Bentons face before, during, and after the collision was nothing but focused agression and intensity. I could literally see that Benton was "All In".
People can be talented, but they got to want it, and I think CPR finds the guys who want it more than anything.
One guy that comes to mind for me is Terran Benton. (I know not a CPR recruit but it illustrates the point) First year I saw him on the field I thought to myself what in the world, this guy will be eaten alive, just look at him! Moments later I saw, up close, an undersized Benton take on linemen from his nickel back spot and make a hit on a ball carrier. The look on Bentons face before, during, and after the collision was nothing but focused agression and intensity. I could literally see that Benton was "All In".
People can be talented, but they got to want it, and I think CPR finds the guys who want it more than anything.
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Gotcha. Yeah if coaches are using Rivals to target players then they won't last long will they. Although I wonder about Texas sometimes. This is why its near insanity to keep having this topic come up with such emotion on a fan site. Like anyone here knows if Waggoner is ever going to play a down at LB. Maddening.
Well the last two classes have been mostly 3 star kids with a few developmental 2 stars mixed. I think by the time all is said and done, this years class will be very similar.
He's just making a point that not all 2 stars suck. However it is true that some 2 stars wont amount to much.
You basically can't assume the extreme either way and CPR and staff have had some success with some 2 stars.
Thank you. JDs zero star record lasted a whole day before he was updated to 2 stars. He may even get another one after a good senior year. If not, the staff likes his athleticism and will do what they can with him.
Relating a 4 star recruit to a draft pick and an undrafted free agent to a recruit nobody knows about or is a 2 star. How many draft picks become busts and how many undrafted FA go on to have great NFL careers? Quite a few for both. According to some people PR isn't getting it done right, but either are the GM's in the NFL if you go by that thinking.
I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong with their arguments, but for the time being, I'm gonna trust what is going on up in Ames. But that is coming from a guy who worked with ISU football in the early 90's!:smile:
You are truly delusional. You can't logically separate criticism of our recruiting from criticizing the coaches responsible for doing it and the players that comprise it.
Your conclusions are not based on individually scouting and evaluating players. Rather, you have a set of circumstantial criteria that you've determined are more valid then the skills of our coaches at individually evaluating and scouting players.
How is that a player like Jake Knott that who has exceptional athleticism for his position can be looked at by two highly successful coaches in Kirk Ferentz and Gene Chizik, and yet neither offered him a scholarship? Paul Rhoads watched film on Jake and questioned what he was missing because he couldn't believe why others had passed on this kid.
No one including our coaches was recruiting Aaron Horne from a highly successful, high profile JUCO in California. Our coaches were recruiting Steele Jantz and they discovered him in the process. We clearly weren't the only staff scouting that highly successful program.
I'm guessing that JD Wagoner was noticed by our staff when they were initially focused on his teammates. To borrow another local example regarding the failure of your logic. How many payed attention to and subsequently offered Harrison Barnes extremely talented teammate? Did Doug McDermott lack exposure?
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