Home brew

[isukendall]

I am fortunate to have a nice LHBS (local homebrew shop) that keeps solid, fresh ingredients on hand. I can definitely tell a difference going to all-grain brewing, and I think it has to do with the ingredients. I agree that great beers can be made with extract, but for me, the only time I go back is if I have a simple recipe that I want to knock out quickly without having a ton to clean up. All-grain is a lot more work, but to me, it's part of the "process" - since I now have the capability to do so, cutting corners on all-grain seems like cheating to me now. But if you don't have the equipment, do the best you can with what you have!

Appreciate the comments from BKLNCyclone, a question to you and other homebrewers: what is the allure of making clone beers? I have made probably twenty batches of my own, but none of them were clones of commercial beers. I get the idea of dialing in your process to reach a certain ideal. My thought is, I want to make something unique, not something that has been done before, that I can buy off the shelf. I often take recipes I find in books or online to get an idea of what is typical for the style, but almost always substitute hops, yeast, etc. to make my own take on it.

For example, here is a great resource for Avery Brewery in Boulder, they basically give their ingredient lists for their beers. I recently made a Columbus IPA using the same grain bill as their IPA (very simple), but used all Columbus hops with slightly different additions (wife works for a brewery and got me a whole pound) and Nottingham Yeast (washed from a prior batch). Why would I want to remake Avery's IPA when I just made my own?

 

[CykoAGR]

I think the "homebrew taste" is just temp control, bottle aging, and potentially infection. There is a difference in scale and equipment between breweries and homebrewers. When I homebrew, I throw the wort in a fermentor, set it in the corner, and do what I can to keep it "cool". Breweries have jacketed fermentors that keep the wort to within about 1 or 2 degrees of the desired brewing temperature. They also have the ability to cold filter the beer, and age it in walk-in coolers. Most homebrewers don't have that option.

You have a great point on the temperature during fermentation. The ability to keep the fermenting beer on the low end of the temp range (because the active fermentation actually causes the beer to be above the ambient temp) and keep the temp consistent is important as well. Some yeasts have a tendency to impart esters at higher than optimum temps that can be considered "off-flavors".

Try the swamp cooler and a wet tshirt method if you dont have a ferm chamber.

Also, if you bottle your homebrew and don't keg it, bottle-aging of beer will also impart a different flavor.

One last thing that can affect beer taste is infection, so keep everything as clean as possible, and disinfect everything.

 

[dmclone]

Appreciate the comments from BKLNCyclone, a question to you and other homebrewers: what is the allure of making clone beers?

One reason would be because you can't get the beer locally. I like Surly Furious but it's only sold in MN. I'd like to try Dogfish 60 minute IPA but it doesn't come to Iowa.

 

[CykoAGR]

I am fortunate to have a nice LHBS (local homebrew shop) that keeps solid, fresh ingredients on hand. I can definitely tell a difference going to all-grain brewing, and I think it has to do with the ingredients. I agree that great beers can be made with extract, but for me, the only time I go back is if I have a simple recipe that I want to knock out quickly without having a ton to clean up. All-grain is a lot more work, but to me, it's part of the "process" - since I now have the capability to do so, cutting corners on all-grain seems like cheating to me now. But if you don't have the equipment, do the best you can with what you have!

Appreciate the comments from BKLNCyclone, a question to you and other homebrewers: what is the allure of making clone beers? I have made probably twenty batches of my own, but none of them were clones of commercial beers. I get the idea of dialing in your process to reach a certain ideal. My thought is, I want to make something unique, not something that has been done before, that I can buy off the shelf. I often take recipes I find in books or online to get an idea of what is typical for the style, but almost always substitute hops, yeast, etc. to make my own take on it.

For example, here is a great resource for Avery Brewery in Boulder, they basically give their ingredient lists for their beers. I recently made a Columbus IPA using the same grain bill as their IPA (very simple), but used all Columbus hops with slightly different additions (wife works for a brewery and got me a whole pound) and Nottingham Yeast (washed from a prior batch). Why would I want to remake Avery's IPA when I just made my own?

As I mentioned before I am still relatively new to the process. If I find a beer that I like, say Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, I like the idea of trying to "clone" to see if I can get close to the finished product. This helps me understand if my process is on track, if I can clone the beer it means that I have closely mimmicked their process and produced a beer very similar in flavor. Its more of a self-check.

Once I have more experience I will probably start to deviate from their recipe substituting hops (either time or variety) or changing the grain bill to "tweak" the end product. Im just not comfortable enough right now to know that if I combine this grain bill with this hop addition what the end product will taste like. I dont want a crappy beer after all the time and $$ invested.

Again its more about a lack of experience for me.

 

[CykoAGR]

One reason would be because you can't get the beer locally. I like Surly Furious but it's only sold in MN. I'd like to try Dogfish 60 minute IPA but it doesn't come to Iowa.

Another valid point

 

[TykeClone]

One reason would be because you can't get the beer locally. I like Surly Furious but it's only sold in MN. I'd like to try Dogfish 60 minute IPA but it doesn't come to Iowa.

Or spotted cow :skeptical:

 

[00clone]

Appreciate the comments from BKLNCyclone, a question to you and other homebrewers: what is the allure of making clone beers? I have made probably twenty batches of my own, but none of them were clones of commercial beers. I get the idea of dialing in your process to reach a certain ideal. My thought is, I want to make something unique, not something that has been done before, that I can buy off the shelf. I often take recipes I find in books or online to get an idea of what is typical for the style, but almost always substitute hops, yeast, etc. to make my own take on it.

Clone beers/all grain...like I said before, the best part of homebrewing is that you can have fun no matter what you want to put into it or what you're looking to get out of it. Sounds like you get satisfaction from the creativity of recipe development. I get (got...it's been too long since I actually brewed) satisfaction from the 'I made that', but I didn't have the time to dedicate to all grain, and making a recipe with ingredients in extract is sometimes a hassle to get what you need and not more, nor do I brew often enough or drink enough to be able to deal with a recipe I created that I didn't like. Also, with the constraints on my time, dedicating the time to do all grain would turn it into 'work' and not fun. Extract/clone or kit beers gave me the enjoyment of making my own beer without the stuff that didn't really interest me.

Others get into cloning to experience the satisfaction of claiming enough knowledge and process control to produce the exact beer that a professional does.

Short version: Sounds like you're a creativity geek, there are others who are process geeks.

 

[BKLYNCyclone]

Appreciate the comments from BKLNCyclone, a question to you and other homebrewers: what is the allure of making clone beers? I have made probably twenty batches of my own, but none of them were clones of commercial beers. I get the idea of dialing in your process to reach a certain ideal. My thought is, I want to make something unique, not something that has been done before, that I can buy off the shelf. I often take recipes I find in books or online to get an idea of what is typical for the style, but almost always substitute hops, yeast, etc. to make my own take on it.

Originally, I was doing craft beer clones because I was living in Brooklyn and couldn't get Bell's or Surly. The NB black ipa kit is just a good beer and a style that was hard to find a few years ago. Now I live in MN (homebrew mecca), and I want to brew a clone of Brooklyn BLAST! which is hard to find here. (saw it at The Happy Gnome once, got that and a couple Surly 5s... That was a good night!)

Anymore, what I do now is when I find a beer I love, I use it as an inspiration for a beer I want to make. I frankly make a lot of Maris Otter SMASH beers (single malt and single hop) just to learn the characteristics of the malt and the hops, and cuz I have a 55 lb bag of maris otter sitting around...

I'd say 90% of the beers I make now are originals. I've got a moldy looking sob in the back of my fermentation closet that's been going since valentines day 2012. (Named 3 hearted zombie jesus as I plan on kegging it valentines day 2014 and I inoculated it with brett on easter of 2013). It's being served on easter 2014... The second five gallons is going to go another year on oak and with cherries... Calling that one 4 hearted cherry poppin' zombie jesus woody... Don't be offended, it's all in fun, and it's a pretty accurate name for the beer.

 

[colbycheese]

I used to only brew partial mashes. I've since switched to all grain, but I do it with the "brew-in-a-bag" method. The only equipment I had to buy was a large bag, and a sieve/colander. The only disadvantage is that I'm limited to 3 or 4 gallon batches now, as opposed to 5 gallon batches, but I don't mind that; 3 gallon batches are just about the right amount for me. I highly recommend BIAB homebrewing.

As for the swamp cooler method, I've actually tried that. It works really well, but the disadvantage is that it raises the humidity of your house so much. I'd recommend that for someone that could separate their fermentor/swamp cooler from their living space. I found that the swamp cooler dropped the fermentor to ten degrees below the ambient temperature (with a fan blowing on the t-shirt). That in combination with adding ice to the water to drop the temperature right off the bat is a pretty ideal setup.

 

[BKLYNCyclone]

By the way, since we've got an audience now, curious as to what people would love in a craft beer bar... I just happen to be designing a legit craft beer bar at the moment. Pretty much a dream project for me as an architect, craft beer lover, and homebrewer. The place is going to be all draft craft beer and oysters. I'm clearly opinionated on the subject (I've done a lot of research in the last 5 years), but would love to hear thoughts. Now worries either, it's on the east coast, so the oysters will be fresh!

 

[dmclone]

As I mentioned before I am still relatively new to the process. If I find a beer that I like, say Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, I like the idea of trying to "clone" to see if I can get close to the finished product. This helps me understand if my process is on track, if I can clone the beer it means that I have closely mimmicked their process and produced a beer very similar in flavor. Its more of a self-check.

Once I have more experience I will probably start to deviate from their recipe substituting hops (either time or variety) or changing the grain bill to "tweak" the end product. Im just not comfortable enough right now to know that if I combine this grain bill with this hop addition what the end product will taste like. I dont want a crappy beer after all the time and $$ invested.

Again its more about a lack of experience for me.

I'm also in this camp. Still trying to understand what it would take to do the all-grain process. My check out the brew thing at bait shop in a couple of weeks where they do it on site.

 

[BKLYNCyclone]

I used to only brew partial mashes. I've since switched to all grain, but I do it with the "brew-in-a-bag" method. The only equipment I had to buy was a large bag, and a sieve/colander. The only disadvantage is that I'm limited to 3 or 4 gallon batches now, as opposed to 5 gallon batches, but I don't mind that; 3 gallon batches are just about the right amount for me. I highly recommend BIAB homebrewing.

My buddy does this and has a lot of success. Had I known this method, I certainly would have gone this route in NYC at first (I literally was renting a storage unit in Brooklyn for my kettles and coolers...) I'm still tempted to try it anyway for an easier clean up some weekend. People swear by it. I keg so I like 5 or 10 gallon batches. It's a small investment to get one kettle big enough for the BIAB compared to what I've dumped into my setup.

 

[CykoAGR]

By the way, since we've got an audience now, curious as to what people would love in a craft beer bar... I just happen to be designing a legit craft beer bar at the moment. Pretty much a dream project for me as an architect, craft beer lover, and homebrewer. The place is going to be all draft craft beer and oysters. I'm clearly opinionated on the subject (I've done a lot of research in the last 5 years), but would love to hear thoughts. Now worries either, it's on the east coast, so the oysters will be fresh!

Are you looking for design features or beer/serving ideas?

 

[BKLYNCyclone]

Are you looking for design features or beer/serving ideas?

Anything and everything. Note that all beers will be paired to and poured in their proper glassware already. Just looking for little things that people like in a bar (coat hooks below the bar top, etc). Things that stood out when at your favorite places. Next time I'm in central IA I'll be checking out El Bait Shop for "research..." but I've been to a lot of great places already in MSP and NYC.

 

[ianoconnor]

Updated and easy to read menus
Knowledgeable staff
TVs
Cask beer
Educational/unique events - tastings, bjcp, special pourings, brewery visits

 

[dmclone]

I would put in some kind of computer program for the less knowledgeable. Something like "if you like .....Then try this....". A digital board with all the brews currently on tap along with their style, ABV, etc. would be cool. Also, don't try and be cute by putting a window above the pisser where everyone can see your face while you whiz.

 

[NickTheGreat]

Or spotted cow :skeptical:

Northern Brewer has Speckled Heifer partial mash kit you can buy. I just made it a month or two ago. Though I haven't had Spotted Cow in a while to see how it compares :twitcy:

 

[BKLYNCyclone]

Updated and easy to read menus
Knowledgeable staff
TVs
Cask beer
Educational/unique events - tastings, bjcp, special pourings, brewery visits

Menus are key. We're working with the graphic designer to make it a form thing so that he can show what's on tap, when it was tapped, and etc. He'll firesale the end of kegs on their last couple days to keep rotating and keep the beer on tap fresh.
Done, (bar owner will be on staff at the beginning for awhile until things hopefully take off and he wants to open another one).
Working on tvs. Right now the bar is designed as hybrid between an english pub and a german beer hall. It's a long narrow space, so there is a bar, and a long communal table. It's a good atmosphere for soccer, so I'm seeing if he's willing to add the tvs.
All about the education stuff. Planning special "bottle days" where he serves bottled beer he sources from around the country, mostly stuff you cannot get in NY, but I'm sure there would be a fair amount of local stuff too. He did a great job of bringing in guest breweries to take over taps of special brews and such for a night/weekend at his last bar. I expect he'll do an even better job this time around. I spent an evening speaking with the brewmaster/owner of Kelso in Brooklyn one night at his old bar. It was pretty fun to talk brewing with a guy who went legit. Six point, Brooklyn, Southern Tier, Kelso, etc are all pretty much local and easy to get in for this kind of stuff. Even better when the bring a keg of the experimental stuff they've been working on.

 

[ianoconnor]

Sounds like it'll be a great place to visit! For me, I really like having a frequently updated menu at my table that I can view prior to ordering (similar to how bait shop does it). When I go to a bar that has one big board of beers, I feel rushed into making a choice because there are likely people waiting behind me.

 

[CykoAGR]

Anything and everything. Note that all beers will be paired to and poured in their proper glassware already. Just looking for little things that people like in a bar (coat hooks below the bar top, etc). Things that stood out when at your favorite places. Next time I'm in central IA I'll be checking out El Bait Shop for "research..." but I've been to a lot of great places already in MSP and NYC.

Menu idea- What if you have an ipad or some kind of tablet for each table? Be able to research your food and drinks at the table and even place an order without the wait staff coming by. Automatically linked to the bar/kitchen so no waiting for the customer. Have to "secure" these so they dont walk away but an interesting concept.

This would also allow for immediate up to date menu/inventory, meaning if you are out of a beer it shows this so you dont have someone order something and then have someone come back and say "sorry we are all out of that".

I really like when places have "flights" available. you can sample small glasses of select beers (either pre-determined or select your own type of thing). Less likelyhood of ordering something you dont like. You could even do a complementary flight or something to get those BMC drinkers to try something different.

Coat hooks on the booth is a good idea.

What about selling bottles of the brews made right there on site? You know to take home if you find something you like from your brewery. Some places do this already but others you can only get their beer at their brewpub.

The homebrewer in me always wants to know whats in a specific brew, hops, grain etc so if I wanted to replicate I could. I see the issue of this with a brewery not wanting to share this but its a thought.