Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

[Cutlass]

Jon isn't dead and this is why. He's got TWO different avenues averting death. One is Mel can bring him back via the Lord of Light. Two is he can go into Ghost.

This part is me conjecturing, so work with me. When other major characters have died, it was never in their last chapter of the book. When Ned died we saw his head on a spike in another chapter. When Rob died we heard tales of his body with his wolf's head sown onto it. Khal Drogo, we burned his body. Jon dies and we just fade to black. If Jon were really dead, GRRM would have had one more chapter at the wall to drive that point home.

 

[bawbie]

This part is me conjecturing, so work with me. When other major characters have died, it was never in their last chapter of the book. When Ned died we saw his head on a spike in another chapter. When Rob died we heard tales of his body with his wolf's head sown onto it. Khal Drogo, we burned his body. Jon dies and we just fade to black. If Jon were really dead, GRRM would have had one more chapter at the wall to drive that point home.

I agree with this. After 5 books, I feel like I have a good sense of when someone is actually dead or not and I never felt like Jon was (permanently) dead when I read that. Waaay too much of that story left.

 

[Angie]

I agree with this. After 5 books, I feel like I have a good sense of when someone is actually dead or not and I never felt like Jon was (permanently) dead when I read that. Waaay too much of that story left.

I agree, there's no finality to it.

That's one thing that sort of makes me laugh about GRRM's books - you can sorta tell when something big is going to happen. If someone makes specific plans (a la the Red Viper before fighting Clegane), you can pretty much tell that something huge is about to happen.

 

[westlbcyclone]

I agree, there's no finality to it.

That's one thing that sort of makes me laugh about GRRM's books - you can sorta tell when something big is going to happen. If someone makes specific plans (a la the Red Viper before fighting Clegane), you can pretty much tell that something huge is about to happen.

It's either someone makes big, grandiose plans OR things start to go well for them. If someone has been having a pretty crappy time, and suddenly things start to go their way, look out.

 

[Angie]

It's either someone makes big, grandiose plans OR things start to go well for them. If someone has been having a pretty crappy time, and suddenly things start to go their way, look out.

Good addendum. You are absolutely correct. Tyrion is case in point.

 

[Bigman38]

The only characters I feel are safe, for now, are Tyrion, Arya, and Daenerys. Each of their stories feels pretty incomplete right now. Everyone else is fair game in my mind.

 

[CloneIce]

Does anyone know exactly when this year Book 6 is supposed to come out?

BIG OLD SPOILERS:

In addition to my theory that Melisandre is going to revive Jon, and that he's Rhaegar's bastard instead of Ned's, I also think Coldhands is Benjen Stark.

I'd be amazed if it comes out this year. I'm just hoping for 2014, but not even that optimistic.

 

[CloneIce]

Also, what's going to happen to "Lady Stoneheart"? What's her purpose now? How will that end?

One of two things will happen:

A. She will kill Jamie (and possibly Brienne).

B. Jamie and/or Brienne will kill her.

If A happens, George will have pulled the ultimate switcheroo on us... having us angry when she kills Jamie. I know none of us would've thought that after the first book or two. I actually think this is going to happen.

If B happens, he will still have pulled an amazing switcheroo, as I would much rather have Jamie survive than her and would be cheering for him over her.

Either way, that resolution is one (among many) that I can't wait to read.

 

[bos]

I too am leaning towards the Coldhands/Benjen identity. Its an interesting idea.

Although he is supposed to be very old. Depends on your interpretation.

 

[bos]

There is also a theory its Nights King. Which if you believe that this person is from long ago (literal), that could be it.


http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Night's_King

 

[CloneIce]

I don't think Coldhands is Benjin. Any other series I would think so, but its too obvious for Martin. Plus Coldhands statements in Book 5 seem to contradict this theory. Might be we never see Benjen again as Martin usually chooses realistic over tying up all loose ends (like the Sopranos writers often did).

I think there is a ton of evidence that John is who many have suggested.... but a part of me would absolutely love it if we find out that Ned really did just hook up with a totally random woman and Jon is simply Ned's bastard. But I think he is probably the result of R + L.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Arrrggg! I'm about 40% done with book 5, and the spoilers get me within a half page!

 

[ThatllDoCy]

I don't think we find out what happened to Benjen Stark.

 

[royhobbs09]

I don't think we find out what happened to Benjen Stark.

I think you are right unless he comes back as a wight and kills a bunch of people in the battle between ice and fire.

 

[burn587]

I doubt Coldhands is benjen also. When bran and company are being attacked by the wights and make it to the safety of the weird fairy hole (its been a while since I read this part) Bran says something to the effect that the wights will kill cold hands if they don't help him to which someone replies "they already killed him long ago". I think at that point maybe 3 years had passed since benjen disappeared so not that long ago.

The way RR Martin is I doubt we get a conclusive answer on coldhands's identity.

 

[Iastfan112]

The only characters I feel are safe, for now, are Tyrion, Arya, and Daenerys. Each of their stories feels pretty incomplete right now. Everyone else is fair game in my mind.

I just have a bad feeling about Arya, think she gets her vengeance but dies sometime in the last book.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

I just have a bad feeling about Arya, think she gets her vengeance but dies sometime in the last book.

Arya's story line probably doesn't have a happy ending. She has chosen a dangerous path. Without Jon or Rob setting her straight she is going to go all the way down the dark path.

 

[Doc]

Arya's story line probably doesn't have a happy ending. She has chosen a dangerous path. Without Jon or Rob setting her straight she is going to go all the way down the dark path.

How infuriating would it be if the Stark family's overall narrative in the series is simply another story of another family like the Reynes or Blackfyre's going extinct or semi-extinct. It seems pretty ridiculous that 4 of them ( 5 counting Jon) could die in the last 2 books, but I could see it happening. Bran's story could end once Martin explores that mystical aspect, and Rickon doesn't have much of a story and could go. If Littlefinger discovers Bran and Rickon are alive, and Sansa doesn't hold the key to the north anymore (I'm assuming it would go to the sons...I could be wrong) I don't think he'd let his love for little Catelyn keep him from doing whatever it takes.

Brandon's dead, Lyanna's dead, Benjen is likely dead, Ned's dead...they're really not that far away.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

How infuriating would it be if the Stark family's overall narrative in the series is simply another story of another family like the Reynes or Blackfyre's going extinct or semi-extinct. It seems pretty ridiculous that 4 of them ( 5 counting Jon) could die in the last 2 books, but I could see it happening. Bran's story could end once Martin explores that mystical aspect, and Rickon doesn't have much of a story and could go. If Littlefinger discovers Bran and Rickon are alive, and Sansa doesn't hold the key to the north anymore (I'm assuming it would go to the sons...I could be wrong) I don't think he'd let his love for little Catelyn keep him from doing whatever it takes.

Brandon's dead, Lyanna's dead, Ned's dead...they're really not that far away.

It would be very hard to take since he started the story with those Characters of the Stark Family. You develop a relationship to them as the protagonists and if he completely abandons them for new characters, I just don't see the sense in it. Great stories are great because of the characters. What is the point of writing it if not to take the characters story lines to fruition. I would quit reading if all the Stark children died.

Interesting point about Sansa, but she could take the seat and her husband rule Winterfell. She has a claim and possession is 9/10' of the law and 100% in Westeros. Especially with an army.

 

[Wesley]

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