Big 12 Tie Breakers

[4CY4EVR]

So I understand we lose the tie breaker with Texas since we split & they beat Kansas.
The same thing we happen with K-State if we lose in Manhattan next Saturday and tie with them.
What is the our tie breaker situation with Oklahoma? (assuming they lose in Lawrence Monday night)

I know the 2 & 3 seeds are basically the same.. (however the 2 seed gets us a match up with a team from the play in round)

I like us against WVU wed night in Hilton & OSU on Senior day... However the road games against KSU & Baylor will be tough (but doable)

I hope this don't play out like last year where will fall to the 4/5 line and then get KU in the semis if we are able to win the first one.

 

[dahliaclone]

input in this grid and hit submit and all tiebreakers will be there for you.

mred's Big 12 Tournament Bracket Generator

 

[CyHawk7]

So I understand we lose the tie breaker with Texas since we split & they beat Kansas.
The same thing we happen with K-State if we lose in Manhattan next Saturday and tie with them.
What is the our tie breaker situation with Oklahoma? (assuming they lose in Lawrence Monday night)

I know the 2 & 3 seeds are basically the same.. (however the 2 seed gets us a match up with a team from the play in round)

I like us against WVU wed night in Hilton & OSU on Senior day... However the road games against KSU & Baylor will be tough (but doable)

I hope this don't play out like last year where will fall to the 4/5 line and then get KU in the semis if we are able to win the first one.

We need to Texas to beat OU then we will have the tie breaker against them.

 

[Dale]

What is the our tie breaker situation with Oklahoma? (assuming they lose in Lawrence Monday night)

If OU beats Texas in a week, we lose to them in a head-to-head tiebreaker, assuming Texas is still ahead of KSU et al. (It goes by best record against the #1 team, then #2, etc., and OU would be 2-0 against UT.) In a three-way tiebreaker, it would go OU, ISU, UT on round-robin record.

It Texas beats OU, and OU doesn't beat Kansas, it depends on who ISU/OU beats and where the teams below finish -- it's hard to generalize. In a three-way tie in that scenario, Texas would be first (because of beating KU), and ISU and Oklahoma's order would, again, depends on who ISU/OU beats and where the teams below finish

(All from mred's Big XII Bracket Generator.)

 

[DarkStar]

Here is the link

Phillips 66 Big 12 Championship Seeding and Tiebreaker Procedures - Big 12 Conference - Official Athletic Site

Here are the rules:

1. Tiebreakers. The first criteria in the breaking of ties in the standings shall be head-to-head competition of tied teams. The following procedure will be used to establish the postseason championship seeds when ties exist.
   1. Ties Involving Two Teams.
      1. Results of head-to-head competition during the regular season.
      2. Each team's record vs. the team occupying the highest position in the final regular-season standings, and then continuing down through the standings until one team gains an advantage.
         
         When arriving at another group of tied teams while comparing records, use each team's record against the collective tied teams as a group (prior to that group's own tie-breaking procedure), rather than the performance against individual tied teams.
      3. A comparison of the tied teams Conference-games only road record.
      4. A comparison of the tied teams Conference-games only road record vs. the team(s) occupying the highest position in the final Conference regular season standings, and then continuing down through the standings until one team gains an advantage.
         
         When arriving at another group of tied teams while comparing records, use each team's record against the collective tied teams as a group (prior to that group's own tie-breaking procedure), rather than the performance against individual tied teams.
      5. Draw. In the event tiebreaking procedures are unsuccessful and a draw is necessary in determining any portion of seeding, the following procedure will be used:
         1. The draw will be conducted in public or with media attendance.
         2. Institutions involved in the drawing have the right to have a local representative in attendance at the drawing.
         3. A single slip of paper for each institution (with name or logo) will be placed into a container and will be drawn in order of seeding from highest to lowest.
   2. Ties Involving More than Two Teams.
      1. Results of collective head-to-head competition during the regular season among the tied teams (mini round-robin).
      2. If more than two teams are still tied, each of the tied team's record vs. the team occupying the highest position in the final regular season standings, and then continuing down through the standings, eliminating tied teams with inferior records until one team gains an advantage.
         
         When arriving at another group of tied teams while comparing records, use each team's record against the collective tied teams as a group (prior to that group's own tie-breaking procedure), rather than the performance against individual tied teams.
      3. If more than two teams are still tied, a comparison of the tied teams Conference-games only road record.
      4. If more than two teams are still tied, a comparison of the tied teams Conference-games only road record vs. the team(s) occupying the highest position in the final Conference regular season standings, and then continuing down through the standing until one team gains an advantage.
         
         When arriving at another group of tied teams while comparing records, use each team's record against the collective tied teams as a group (prior to that group's own tie-breaking procedure), rather than the performance against individual tied teams.
      5. If at any point the multiple-team tie is reduced to two teams, the two-team tie- breaking procedures above will be applied.
      6. Once a team is eliminated from a multi-team comparison, it is dropped from further comparisons.

 

[DarkStar]

If OU beats Texas in a week, we lose to them in a head-to-head tiebreaker, assuming Texas is still ahead of KSU et al. (It goes by best record against the #1 team, then #2, etc., and OU would be 2-0 against UT.) In a three-way tiebreaker, it would go OU, ISU, UT on round-robin record.

It Texas beats OU, and OU doesn't beat Kansas, it depends on who ISU/OU beats and where the teams below finish -- it's hard to generalize. In a three-way tie in that scenario, Texas would be first (because of beating KU), and ISU and Oklahoma's order would, again, depends on who ISU/OU beats and where the teams below finish

(All from mred's Big XII Bracket Generator.)

If I am reading the rules correctly, in a three-way tiebreaker with OU, ISU, and UT and OU beats UT next week, The order would be OU, UT, ISU.

OU wins the round robin.
After OU is removed from the group of three then it goes to Head to Head between ISU and UT where they win because of their record against KU.

Agree on your discription of what happens if UT beats OU next week.

 

[CyFan61]

I think it is really too early for us to make any sense of this. Take your pick of the below schedules between the three teams currently tied for 2nd:

Iowa State
West Virginia
@ Baylor
@ Kansas State
Oklahoma State

Oklahoma
@ Kansas
Texas
West Virginia
@ TCU

Texas
Baylor
@ Oklahoma
TCU
@ Texas Tech

I don't even want to start speculating because something is going to happen in one of these 11 games that we didn't expect, and it will change the entire picture. Hell, OU could look like they have the 2 seed wrapped up and then lose @ TCU in the last game of the year. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Wesley]

Fred,

Just win out. You have plenty of gas. Use it.

 

[burn587]

Fred,

Just win out. You have plenty of gas. Use it.

Did he steal some from CPR? I hope CPR doesn't run out.

 

[Cyforce]

What I see is if we were to finish 12-6 to avoid the 4/5 game we need:
A) Kansas to beat OU (this gives us seeding over the OU/UT loser)
B) K-St to lose one of their two road games (@TT, @OKSt, a 4-way tie pulls us down to 4 playing 5 Texas)

 

[ojoe2317]

I didn't try to cross check with this with the official rules, but if mred's simulator is programmed correctly, I got this as a possible result:

1. Kansas (16 - 2)
2. Oklahoma (12 - 6) Defeated Iowa State and Texas based on round-robin record.
3. Iowa State (12 - 6) Defeated Texas and lost to Oklahoma based on round-robin record.
4. Texas (12 - 6) Lost to Oklahoma and Iowa State based on round-robin record.
5. Kansas State (10 - 8)
6. West Virginia (8 - 10) Defeated Baylor based on record against #2 teams.

 

[DarkStar]

I didn't try to cross check with this with the official rules, but if mred's simulator is programmed correctly, I got this as a possible result:

1. Kansas (16 - 2)
2. Oklahoma (12 - 6) Defeated Iowa State and Texas based on round-robin record.
3. Iowa State (12 - 6) Defeated Texas and lost to Oklahoma based on round-robin record.
4. Texas (12 - 6) Lost to Oklahoma and Iowa State based on round-robin record.
5. Kansas State (10 - 8)
6. West Virginia (8 - 10) Defeated Baylor based on record against #2 teams.

I do not think he has the three way tie part correct. It starts out correct with comparing records of the mini-round robin. But after one team wins and the total number is reduced to two, it goes to the two team tie breaker rules. The mini-round robin results does not determine second place in a three way tie.

To me it looks like we need to win out and get some help to avoid the 4 seed.

We are not going to win a three way tie and we will not have tie breakers to win out against OU, UT or KSU (assuming we lose to KSU Saturday) to stay ahead of them.

 

[allfourcy]

So, are we wanting Texas to lose at OU, or not? Not that anything will be hashed for another 2 weeks.

 

[HFCS]

input in this grid and hit submit and all tiebreakers will be there for you.

mred's Big 12 Tournament Bracket Generator

I usually get us tied with OU for 2nd and losing the tie breaker.

Also filling that out, Texas Tech is a land mine we are lucky to have in the rearview...so many times I had to really think about if a team could beat them. I think they beat UT at home to close out the season.

 

[Dale]

I do not think he has the three way tie part correct.

From the official tiebreaker rules:

Ties Involving More than Two Teams.​

• Results of collective head-to-head competition during the regular season among the tied teams (mini round-robin).
• If more than two teams are still tied...[invoke other rules]
• ...
• ...
• If at any point the multiple-team tie is reduced to two teams, the two-team tie- breaking procedures above will be applied.

It's not exactly clear, but it implies to me that tiebreaker rule #1 orders all teams, unless they're tied in rule #1. I know there was some rule that mred actually wrote to the Big XII office for clarification on; it might have been that one.

 

[CyFan61]

From my reading of the rules, I though the simulator had it incorrect due to the section Dale posted. I thought that OU would win the three-team tie, leaving ISU and UT still tied, which would then bring them to the two-team criteria. UT wins on those grounds due to their win over KU.

However, Dale's reading could work too - which would put OU (3-1), ISU (2-2), and UT (1-3) in that order and land us the 3 seed. Hope I'm wrong and he's right!

 

[DarkStar]

From the official tiebreaker rules:

Ties Involving More than Two Teams.​

• Results of collective head-to-head competition during the regular season among the tied teams (mini round-robin).
• If more than two teams are still tied...[invoke other rules]
• ...
• ...
• If at any point the multiple-team tie is reduced to two teams, the two-team tie- breaking procedures above will be applied.

It's not exactly clear, but it implies to me that tiebreaker rule #1 orders all teams, unless they're tied in rule #1. I know there was some rule that mred actually wrote to the Big XII office for clarification on; it might have been that one.

I guess it does come down to where you exit the loop. Do you exit after one team gets seeded or not? My apologies to mred if I am wrong.

Going to be a crazy couple weeks.

 

[ahaselhu]

From the official tiebreaker rules:

Ties Involving More than Two Teams.​

• Results of collective head-to-head competition during the regular season among the tied teams (mini round-robin).
• If more than two teams are still tied...[invoke other rules]
• ...
• ...
• If at any point the multiple-team tie is reduced to two teams, the two-team tie- breaking procedures above will be applied.

It's not exactly clear, but it implies to me that tiebreaker rule #1 orders all teams, unless they're tied in rule #1. I know there was some rule that mred actually wrote to the Big XII office for clarification on; it might have been that one.

I guess it does come down to where you exit the loop. Do you exit after one team gets seeded or not? My apologies to mred if I am wrong.

Going to be a crazy couple weeks.

Given that #1 says "mini round-robin", rather than just the best record of the tied teams, I'm pretty sure mred is right. OU's 3-1 record against ISU and Texas gets them the 2 seed. Our 2-2 record against OU and Texas gives us the 3 seed. Texas' 1-3 record against ISU and OU gets them the 4 seed.

 

[Cyclonesince78]

Slightly off topic, but I'll be traveling during the Friday and Saturday games of the big 12 tourney. Anyone know what channel the games will be on and will it be on national tv?

 

[IAStubborn]

I do not think he has the three way tie part correct. It starts out correct with comparing records of the mini-round robin. But after one team wins and the total number is reduced to two, it goes to the two team tie breaker rules. The mini-round robin results does not determine second place in a three way tie.

To me it looks like we need to win out and get some help to avoid the 4 seed.

We are not going to win a three way tie and we will not have tie breakers to win out against OU, UT or KSU (assuming we lose to KSU Saturday) to stay ahead of them.

no he is right. You only go to the second if two or more teams are tied with same round Robin record. Ou would have best at 3-1 then ISU at 2-2 then tex at 1-3. No tie.