RIP, Veishea

[Angie]

I disagree that it's a more accurate analogy. The toy was also given to the two friends who broke it. There was one toy, given to all 20 kids. Two kids broke it. Over and over, despite me trying to fix it in-between each time. That truly sucks for the other 18 kids, but I'm not going to take my time teaching someone else's brats over and over again to leave crap alone, and make the further mistake of FUNDING this "teaching moment." Apparently the group as a whole can't handle the toy, so we move on. Perhaps peer pressure will teach the two little ****heads to stop breaking shared crap.

Sorry, even further commentary on this. Out of the other 18 kids, about 10 sat there and watched the two kids break it, some cheering them on. They did this rather than leave to show their displeasure, they did this rather than to say something to stop the kids. They were contributors to the situation.

 

[Mtowncyclone13]

I disagree that it's a more accurate analogy. The toy was also given to the two friends who broke it. There was one toy, given to all 20 kids. Two kids broke it. Over and over, despite me trying to fix it in-between each time. That truly sucks for the other 18 kids, but I'm not going to take my time teaching someone else's brats over and over again to leave crap alone, and make the further mistake of FUNDING this "teaching moment." Apparently the group as a whole can't handle the toy, so we move on. Perhaps peer pressure will teach the two little ****heads to stop breaking shared crap.

Or the well behaved kids can come in and eat cake and showcase their finger paintings while the naughty kids are sent home

 

[Mr Janny]

Or the well behaved kids can come in and eat cake and showcase their finger paintings while the naughty kids are sent home

I don't care what anyone says, that is ****ing funny, and a shockingly accurate depiction of VEISHEA.

 

[CycloneErik]

I have to think that, at some point, the girl whose birthday we're celebrating doesn't want the trouble kids around anymore, and might end up disliking the big birthday parties.

 

[mj4cy]

I have to think that, at some point, the girl whose birthday we're celebrating doesn't want the trouble kids around anymore, and might end up disliking the big birthday parties.

But what if she loves all the other aspects of the birthday party, 90% of the people, all the positives that come from it and all the dividends that could come from a successful restructured, creative, and new innovative way to celebrate how important she is, her past, her future ect.

 

[WrestlerJJE]

There are no contradictions. There wasn't a mob when 5 guys flipped the car across the street from Welch Ave Station. I was there when it happened and stayed up by Welch Ave Station as everyone ran. But you can keep nitpicking at my story all you want. There have been no lies. If you want an extremely detailed story, I'll come down to Welch and literally reenact what I did.

I would love to see that!!!!!
[video=youtube;FJbmB9k2Y88]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJbmB9k2Y88[/video]

 

[roundball]

Sorry, even further commentary on this. Out of the other 18 kids, about 10 sat there and watched the two kids break it, some cheering them on. They did this rather than leave to show their displeasure, they did this rather than to say something to stop the kids. They were contributors to the situation.

I don't know how anyone can fault the onlookers for not stopping the rioters. There's a reason it takes police officers and tear gas to stop a riot, and it's because your typical rioter probably isn't too receptive to hearing level-headed advice from their peers. Who in their right mind is going to walk into a riot and calmly plead for sanity with a bunch of drunken rowdies?

By the way, I read several accounts of people who were present trying to stop the rioting, both this year and in 2004. And guess what...it wasn't too effective.

 

[CycloneErik]

But what if she loves all the other aspects of the birthday party, 90% of the people, all the positives that come from it and all the dividends that could come from a successful restructured, creative, and new innovative way to celebrate how important she is, her past, her future ect.

Then that would be building something very different, which they already talked about doing.
Probably something smaller, focused, and without the background of trouble.

 

[Mr Janny]

I don't know how anyone can fault the onlookers for not stopping the rioters. There's a reason it takes police officers and tear gas to stop a riot, and it's because your typical rioter probably isn't too receptive to hearing level-headed advice from their peers. Who in their right mind is going to walk into a riot and calmly plead for sanity with a bunch of drunken rowdies?

They can dissipate. Riots get their power in numbers. Gawking from 80 yards, 80 feet, or 80 inches away IS part of the problem.

 

[Angie]

I don't know how anyone can fault the onlookers for not stopping the rioters. There's a reason it takes police officers and tear gas to stop a riot, and it's because your typical rioter probably isn't too receptive to hearing level-headed advice from their peers. Who in their right mind is going to walk into a riot and calmly plead for sanity with a bunch of drunken rowdies?

By just leaving, you're taking away the power of the mob. You don't have to get in there with tear gas, the whole group just has to leave. It's pretty easy for the police to stop five lone people on Welch who are trying to break crap, but it's not as easy when they have to wade through 400 people claiming they're just there to watch, or that they're not nearby, etc., etc.

 

[RubyClone]

The critical question is what kind of cake is being served? Good buttercreme frosting cake (white or chocolate, doesn't matter) or that cheap *** whipped frosting.

If Angie is serving carrot cake - someone should call DHS.

And if she's serving cream cheese frosted cake - I ask what the hell happened to my invite?

 

[CycloneErik]

The critical question is what kind of cake is being served? Good buttercreme frosting cake (white or chocolate, doesn't matter) or that cheap *** whipped frosting.

If Angie is serving carrot cake - someone should call DHS.

And if she's serving cream cheese frosted cake - I ask what the hell happened to my invite?

I have trouble believing that any of us trust Angie to make the call on the cake or frosting.

 

[RubyClone]

They can dissipate. Riots get their power in numbers. Gawking from 80 yards, 80 feet, or 80 inches away IS part of the problem.

Furthermore - it not only empowers the rioters, it handicaps the police.

Nobody is suggesting even a sizeable percentage of the people on Welch that night were actively participating in vandalism or violence. I'll suggest sub 10%, even 5% - so lets say 50-75 people. That's not a terrible number for law enforcement to deal with. But when they're sitting among another 200-300 shouting, jumping around - whatever, and perhaps hundreds more just onlooking and taking videos.... well that changes the dynamic for police significantly.

Roundball is correct - nobody can really blame the onlookers for not actively stopping the riot. But their presence both enables the rioters and disables the police. Why didn't the PD tear gas or go in full force after those 50+ trouble makers? Because in fact they had to deal with (in some capacity) all 500+. Tear gas hundreds to stop a handful? It'll simply escalate and becomes a near impossible task. A handful of cops are supposed to go into a mob of hundreds?

 

[WrestlerJJE]

I have trouble believing that any of us trust Angie to make the call on the cake or frosting.

What the real question is: what did Angie put in the cake or frosting??

 

[roundball]

They can dissipate. Riots get their power in numbers. Gawking from 80 yards, 80 feet, or 80 inches away IS part of the problem.

By just leaving, you're taking away the power of the mob. You don't have to get in there with tear gas, the whole group just has to leave. It's pretty easy for the police to stop five lone people on Welch who are trying to break crap, but it's not as easy when they have to wade through 400 people claiming they're just there to watch, or that they're not nearby, etc., etc.

Easier said than done. Do you think these onlookers all have fish-like schooling instincts, where they can collectively sense a riot going on and just move, en masse away from it? Have you ever been in a crowded, confined area and tried to exit rapidly? Do you think everyone present wanted to be there and wasn't making any attempt to leave?

Saying that everyone present is at fault is casting a very wide net. I've been in Campustown during VEISHEA during non-riot years, and it's sometimes so crowded that I probably wouldn't even know if there was a riot happening, especially when you factor impaired judgment into the equation.

 

[Angie]

The critical question is what kind of cake is being served? Good buttercreme frosting cake (white or chocolate, doesn't matter) or that cheap *** whipped frosting.

If Angie is serving carrot cake - someone should call DHS.

And if she's serving cream cheese frosted cake - I ask what the hell happened to my invite?

I have trouble believing that any of us trust Angie to make the call on the cake or frosting.

As loathe as I am to admit it wink, Erik's probably right on this. I can barely cook Kraft mac and cheese, NOBODY wants me making cream cheese frosting.

 

[CycloneErik]

What the real question is: what did Angie put in the cake or frosting??

You'd have better luck asking Dr. Nick where the bodies are.

 

[Section110]

Yikes this thread has given me a headache.

My summary would look something like this...

It's a damn good thing that responsible adults were the ones who were making this decision because they made the correct one. This thread is proof that there are people out there who would have completely dropped the ball.

 

[WrestlerJJE]

You'd have better luck asking Dr. Nick where the bodies are.

[video=youtube_share;SDVWr93Z9Yc]http://youtu.be/SDVWr93Z9Yc?t=33s[/video]

 

[Angie]

Easier said than done. Do you think these onlookers all have fish-like schooling instincts, where they can collectively sense a riot going on and just move, en masse away from it? Have you ever been in a crowded, confined area and tried to exit rapidly? Do you think everyone present wanted to be there and wasn't making any attempt to leave?

Saying that everyone present is at fault is casting a very wide net. I've been in Campustown during VEISHEA during non-riot years, and it's sometimes so crowded that I probably wouldn't even know if there was a riot happening, especially when you factor impaired judgment into the equation.

There was a ton of video from that night, and it seemed like very few people were attempting to leave, but the chants were from more than 50 to 75 people. It's definitely possible that a few were trying to leave and couldn't, but when the crowd kept moving around, you just don't move with it.