RIP, Veishea

[roundball]

What are you saying here? That somehow the hundreds who were part of that mob was only X% of the overall crowd, that somehow things aren't as bad as the video shows?

After seeing that video - I honestly don't care how many "bystanders" there were. There are far, far, far too many involved to begin with.

That it's unfair to claim that people who were present are at fault for simply being present. Many left. Many tried and weren't able. Many rioted. Many cheered them on. Many stuck around and filmed it. It's ludicrous to paint them all with the same brush.

 

[cycloneworld]

This is correct - it was a Tuesday... before VEISHEA - this should give a clue as to this being a cultural problem not an "event" problem.

Drunken mobs congregated and moved all over campus during "dry" VEISHEA in the late 90's.
A mob is a tinderbox - all it really needs is for one drunk to lead and the next says "I can top that!"

Calling off a well-intentioned event will not stop the culture of mobs in Ames in the Spring. The question is whether there will be a spark.

How many mobs/riots have their been outside of VEISHEA activities?

 

[RubyClone]

That it's unfair to claim that people who were present are at fault for simply being present. Many left. Many tried and weren't able. Many rioted. Many cheered them on. Many stuck around and filmed it. It's ludicrous to paint them all with the same brush.

Well - I don't think anyone is blaming those who left. I think the number of those who "couldn't leave" is insignificant.

(I'll be honest - I think this is a complete BS excuse. Maybe for a few minutes you find it difficult to find your way out. This riot lasted much, much longer than that).

As for "rioted", "cheered them on" and "filmed it" - yes, they should not be painted with the same brush. But I do feel all share some culpability in what happened and in the announcement this morning.

And for my part - the video I linked above (today was the first time I saw that) shows me this was far larger than I thought it was back in April/May. And aside from the overall size - the apparent mindset of the participants is very indicative that what was happening is what VEISHEA is/was all about.

 

[roundball]

Again, they could have left. These are wide-open streets. It's not like they were trapped inside of Hilton with all of the doors locked. The incidents happened over the course of a few hours, and up and down Welch. There was ample time and opportunity to leave when they saw things even remotely starting to head downhill.

People want to justify being there because "I wasn't doing anything." False. Just being part of the group, or being in the vicinity, made it more difficult on emergency personnel (and gave a sense of power to the perpetrators). There were many stories about the ambulance having trouble getting to the kid who got hit with the light pole - it wasn't Leath standing there blocking the way.

Look at the photo below. If you're at the back of that crowd, you might not even realize there's vandalism going on. If you're at the front of that crowd, how quickly do you think you can get out of there? Have you personally ever been in a crowd like this and tried to move rapidly through it?

Not all scenes were like the video someone posted earlier. And even if there is ample room to maneuver, your expectation is that every single person should know exactly what to do in the event of a riot? Do you think it's at all possible that many rational people, upon seeing a riot, thought it best to "shelter in place" and wait for it to end? Or for law enforcement to arrive? It seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do in the absence of some central authority, especially since I don't think "what to do in the even of a riot 101" is common knowledge.

 

[ISUCyclones2015]

How many mobs/riots have their been outside of VEISHEA activities?

1953 Homecoming. They rioted on President Hilton's Lawn
1997 after the Baylor game. They ripped down the goal posts and put them in Lake Laverne
2000 When we beat UCLA to get into Elite 8

I'm sure there are a few others.

 

[RubyClone]

Look at the photo below. If you're at the back of that crowd, you might not even realize there's vandalism going on. If you're at the front of that crowd, how quickly do you think you can get out of there? Have you personally ever been in a crowd like this and tried to move rapidly through it?

Not all scenes were like the video someone posted earlier. And even if there is ample room to maneuver, your expectation is that every single person should know exactly what to do in the event of a riot? Do you think it's at all possible that many rational people, upon seeing a riot, thought it best to "shelter in place" and wait for it to end? Or for law enforcement to arrive? It seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do in the absence of some central authority, especially since I don't think "what to do in the even of a riot 101" is common knowledge.

Is Welch closed off for VEISHEA?

 

[Judoka]

This is correct - it was a Tuesday... before VEISHEA - this should give a clue as to this being a cultural problem not an "event" problem.

It was the Tuesday OF VEISHEA. It is a weeklong event. And they were chanting "VEISHEA" the entire time.

It is an event problem.

 

[Mtowncyclone13]

1953 Homecoming. They rioted on President Hilton's Lawn
1997 after the Baylor game. They ripped down the goal posts and put them in Lake Laverne
2000 When we beat UCLA to get into Elite 8

I'm sure there are a few others.

cancel athletics and retire the Iowa State name, right?

 

[Angie]

Look at the photo below. If you're at the back of that crowd, you might not even realize there's vandalism going on. If you're at the front of that crowd, how quickly do you think you can get out of there? Have you personally ever been in a crowd like this and tried to move rapidly through it?

Not all scenes were like the video someone posted earlier. And even if there is ample room to maneuver, your expectation is that every single person should know exactly what to do in the event of a riot? Do you think it's at all possible that many rational people, upon seeing a riot, thought it best to "shelter in place" and wait for it to end? Or for law enforcement to arrive? It seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do in the absence of some central authority, especially since I don't think "what to do in the even of a riot 101" is common knowledge.

I'm sorry, I think you're just arguing to argue here. First of all, you can hear a car getting tipped, you can hear hundreds of people chanting "VEISHEA" over and over. You can hear glass breaking, etc. And you don't think that the entire crowd was talking about what was going on? People knew exactly what the perpetrators were doing, which is why they were following along like sheep to watch it. There are dozens of videos, there were hundreds chanting at/taunting the police - not just the first people in line who could see them easily.

And actually, yes, I DO expect that every single person should know exactly what to do in the event of a riot. Don't frigging get in the middle of it, walk away. That's not exactly higher thinking, you just walk away. One-year-olds know to not touch something if it's hot; I don't think it's asking a lot of people in their late teens and twenties to do the same.

 

[00clone]

cancel athletics and retire the Iowa State name, right?

Duh...university itself doesn't make money on VEISHEA (or not much), but athletics....

(yes, I know you were joking, but money is always the difference.)

 

[mclatch]

How many mobs/riots have their been outside of VEISHEA activities?

I remember the Baylor game (and knew a guy that was taken to the hospital because he was hit by the goal post).

The UCLA loss had a mob and the UCLA win had riots. There is also a culture of uprising and rioting with sporting events. It would be crazy to take away the ability of these student athletes to play because....

 

[GWad]

But they DID have something to break, and people tried to help them figure out how to not break it many times over the years. At a certain point, you just realize that the kid is going to keep being a ****head, and take away the toy.

I'm sorry, I just don't think it's the responsibility of the administration to teach kids to not act like idiots. These are all young adults, some even older than that. They're old enough to be drafted, smoke, and vote, they're certainly old enough to know better than to not tip over cars.

THIS

 

[mclatch]

It was the Tuesday OF VEISHEA. It is a weeklong event. And they were chanting "VEISHEA" the entire time.

It is an event problem.

I guess I could be wrong. I've never liked VEISHEA - so I don't know. I suppose there may be some activities on campus leading up to the weekend. Are you saying a club having a pancake breakfast on Tuesday morning is the cause of drunken riots Tuesday night?

 

[cycloneworld]

1953 Homecoming. They rioted on President Hilton's Lawn
1997 after the Baylor game. They ripped down the goal posts and put them in Lake Laverne
2000 When we beat UCLA to get into Elite 8

I'm sure there are a few others.

Doing some quick research online, I came across this:

1985: During VEISHEA weekend’s “Ash Bash,â€￾ cars were overturned and burned. 1988: Disturbances took place on three consecutive VEISHEA weekend nights. During the
Sunday morning riot, people in a crowd of approximately 5,000 threw bottles, bricks and rocks
and made a bonfire from furniture. Of the 45 people arrested, 25 were ISU students.
1992: During VEISHEA weekend, people in a large crowd (est. 8,000) threw rocks, cans and
bottles at police. Twenty-seven rioters were arrested and 47 were treated for injuries.
1994: During VEISHEA weekend, people in a large crowd threw cans, bottles and rocks at police.
A total of 20 people were arrested, 11 of whom were students.
1998: Prior to VEISHEA, students in a crowd of approximately 300 chanted profanities, set off
fireworks, and attempted to tear down a light pole in the Towers Residence Hall courtyard before
being dispersed by police. The event was viewed as a protest against the first “Dry VEISHEA.â€￾
1999: During a planned event three weeks before the second “Dry VEISHEAâ€￾ and near the
anniversary of the previous Towers Residence Hall disturbance, students committed acts of
vandalism and chanted profanity in a crowd that moved from the Towers to The Knoll and then to
Jack Trice Stadium, stopping at various points on campus in between to rally loudly.
2000: Following an NCAA basketball victory participants damaged cars, pulled down light poles,
marched to The Knoll and then to Jack Trice Stadium, where they tried to pull a goal post down.
They then tore down pieces of fence and threw them in Lake Laverne.
2004: Rioters in a crowd of approximately 2,000 destroyed property in Campustown and three
objects at police. Police arrested 37 individuals, including 22 Iowa State University students and
three recent alumni.

Add in 2014's VEISHEA riot.

There is one pretty clear theme throughout. And that's VEISHEA unfortunately.

 

[GWad]

It was pretty clear when they assembled the task force members that this was the intended result. Knee jerk + a sham task force to create some cover for it.

The one thing this decision was not is knee jerk. It's been years in the making. Everyone knew the next riot was the end of veishea. Everyone.

 

[Judoka]

I guess I could be wrong. I've never liked VEISHEA - so I don't know. I suppose there may be some activities on campus leading up to the weekend. Are you saying a club having a pancake breakfast on Tuesday morning is the cause of drunken riots Tuesday night?

No, it being VEISHEA week was the cause of drunken riots on a Tuesday night.

 

[00clone]

Doing some quick research online, I came across this:



Add in 2014's VEISHEA riot.

There is one pretty clear theme throughout. And that's VEISHEA unfortunately.

Plus the murder in '97 was part of the impetus for the dry veishea in '98.

 

[Cycl1]

Doing some quick research online, I came across this:



Add in 2014's VEISHEA riot.

There is one pretty clear theme throughout. And that's VEISHEA unfortunately.

Looks like this was the biggest time between riots since it began.

 

[scyclonekid]

Anyone remember the time Mr. Orr told the riot crowd to go the **** home? Awesome he was. Anyway not upset it's been dumb with the riots and that is ********, so later Veisha.

 

[mclatch]

Doing some quick research online, I came across this:



Add in 2014's VEISHEA riot.

There is one pretty clear theme throughout. And that's VEISHEA unfortunately.

Let's reverse that and say it's sporting events, unfortunately, that cause riots every few years. Would you be in favor of eliminating the events or doing the hard work of changing the culture?

Do we end football and basketball because dumpsters are overturned or couches are set on fire?