Jarvis West Fumble

[Doc]

I know NFL and NCAA rules differ, but Megatron just got a knee down with control of the ball in the end zone. You all think that was a touchdown?

 

[PKT13]

There is only one person here that doesn't get it. Yes, I understand the rule, I read it, it was just a bad call. It happens. It just seems to happen to ISU way more often than anyone else.

So a call that follows the rule is a bad call if it goes against you?

hopefully those that still think it was a catch just saw the play with Calvin Johnson in the end zone. But tiro co and gruden probably just misinterpret the rule.

 

[PKT13]

I know NFL and NCAA rules differ, but Megatron just got a knee down with control of the ball in the end zone. You all think that was a touchdown?

Rules are actually very similar now.

 

[klamath632]

Yes, I understand the rule.

it was just a bad call.

These two statements are mutually exclusive.

If you understand the rule, by definition it cannot be a bad call.

If you think it's a bad call, then by definition, you don't understand the rule.

 

[Yellow Snow]

Jarvis has the ball secured, knee is down. Play is over and it is a catch. Period end of story.

What happens after this point shouldn't matter because he has the ball secured and his knee is down ruling the play over.

No it isn't. Otherwise every single guy that lays out for a catch... stabbing it cleanly with both hands... his knee hits the ground first... and the he loses the ball when his body hits the ground... that should be a catch? Do you agree with that?

Just because his knee is down doesn't mean that the play is over.

If he caught it and ran 2 steps before what happened did i'd agree with you.

 

[IAStubborn]

Pretend all you want, what you posted isn't accurate. If he is going to the ground in the process of the catch, which he was, he ABSOLUTELY has to maintain possession through the contact with the ground, which he didn't, since Randle has the ball before he even hits the ground as the picture I posted clearly shows. If I see one more person pretend that the play ends the second his knee touches, I will just make the assumption that they are posting from a leapfrog.

I think we differ on whether he was going to the ground in the act of a catch. I thought so in the replay but the still has him securely with the ball while still up and feet planted on the ground. Then he went down when the tackle is made in which point the ball is stripped. I need to watch the replay again though. Possible the still is distorting. I agree he has to maintain control to the ground if he is going to the ground in the process of catching. The question is was he still completing the process or not. If he had the knee is what matters and that is all folks are saying and you are making a strawman about the ground when in fact the issue really is did he have possession before going to the ground or was it made during the act. If in the act of going to the ground yes you are right but the pics tell a bit of a different story imo. In real time it looked like he made it going to the ground the still (#4 I think) shows him with possession standing straight up feet planted. That is what Curt said. That is what I said.

 

[PKT13]

I think we differ on whether he was going to the ground in the act of a catch. I thought so in the replay but the still has him securely with the ball while still up and feet planted on the ground. Then he went down when the tackle is made in which point the ball is stripped. I need to watch the replay again though. Possible the still is distorting. I agree he has to maintain control to the ground if he is going to the ground in the process of catching. The question is was he still completing the process or not. If he had the knee is what matters and that is all folks are saying and you are making a strawman about the ground when in fact the issue really is did he have possession before going to the ground or was it made during the act. If in the act of going to the ground yes you are right but the pics tell a bit of a different story imo. In real time it looked like he made it going to the ground the still (#4 I think) shows him with possession standing straight up feet planted. That is what Curt said. That is what I said.

Football isn't a flip book.

 

[IAStubborn]

Football isn't a flip book.

Like I said I thought it was the right call yesterday because we couldn't really tell at what point he had possession and at what point he lost it from the replay. The still showed me he had had the ball secure and standing up moving forward like I said I want to go back and watch it know with those register pics informing some of the angles I couldn't see. I am not disputing that the ref likely still got it right. I only commented because you are being such a smug a-hole. It is a new rule that folks are getting used to.

 

[IAStubborn]

This is a gray area, the knee down does not necessarily mean he has possession. Its a screwy rule, but he has to have possession to the ground which I guess includes arms.

The knee touching the pylon before the catch was a much bigger miss call. And for some unknown reason it was not reviewed.

Agree with this

 

[PKT13]

Like I said I thought it was the right call yesterday because we couldn't really tell at what point he had possession and at what point he lost it from the replay. The still showed me he had had the ball secure and standing up moving forward like I said I want to go back and watch it know with those register pics informing some of the angles I couldn't see. I am not disputing that the ref likely still got it right. I only commented because you are being such a smug a-hole. It is a new rule that folks are getting used to.

Being right isn't smug. It ain't my fault this thread has gone on this long as it has. Some people just fail to see facts.

 

[jkclone]

Ok. I rewatched in slowmo. I now feel he caught the ball and dropped to his knees on his own with complete possession. The only reason he went towards the ground is because the ksu player reached in and ripped him forward while grabbing the ball. He was not falling forward when catchung the ball. It is a tough call but I if he were on his knees when he caught it and a player ran up from behind and grabbed the ball after he had firmly secured it would that be a interception? No. Because he was already grounded and was not going to the ground. Neither was he. I am not upset about the call though as it was one of the fastest developing plays I have ever seen. He went straight down to his knees though. Before he was struck. It is not as cut and dry as you are making it. He certainly wouldn't have gone to the ground at all if the k state player hadn't reached in. Certainly a gray area call. And yes you are an smug ***** and I have not dispute a rule with you just your application of it and failure to see that their are areas when it is not so cut and dry.

This is my biggest point. Yes you may have the rules people with you on this play that doesn't mean they are necessarily right. This rule is nowhere near cut and dry.

 

[CoKane]

Personal attacks? Thought that was frowned upon. Anyways, I will go on actually understanding football, you go on making it up as you go.

So you whine about being called a ********, and then post something that makes you look like a *********. lol

 

[PKT13]

Watch Jarvis's reaction. He knows he didnt catch it when he stands up. Y'all are trying to hard to be the victim.

 

[demoncore1031]

"Sorry you got screwed again ISU. It's going to keep happening, but don't feel so bad, we suspended the replay guy for one game so everything is ok. We will send you another apology in the coming weeks when we screw you again."

 

[PKT13]

So you whine about being called a ********, and then post something that makes you look like a *********. lol

I assume you said "post something that makes you look like a genius" since it is starred out

 

[cyclones18]

Anyone consider how the K-State player was able to "catch" that ball when he stripped the ball with his right arm but somehow "caught" it with his left arm pinned behind his back on the ground? If you are laying on top of the football and pull it out from behind your back while laying on the ground there is no way it could be considered a catch...especially when the receiver is laying on top of the defender.

It should have been called incomplete

Just wondering if anyone else noticed that?

 

[PKT13]

Anyone consider how the K-State player was able to "catch" that ball when he stripped the ball with his right arm but somehow "caught" it with his left arm pinned behind his back on the ground? If you are laying on top of the football and pull it out from behind your back while laying on the ground there is no way it could be considered a catch...especially when the receiver is laying on top of the defender.

It should have been called incomplete

Just wondering if anyone else noticed that?

I didnt notice that because none of that happened.

 

[aauummm]

Anyone consider how the K-State player was able to "catch" that ball when he stripped the ball with his right arm but somehow "caught" it with his left arm pinned behind his back on the ground? If you are laying on top of the football and pull it out from behind your back while laying on the ground there is no way it could be considered a catch...especially when the receiver is laying on top of the defender.

It should have been called incomplete

Just wondering if anyone else noticed that?

I noticed that the ball was stripped with the defender's right hand and the ball ended up in the defender's left arm when he was down. I had to rewatch the play 10-15 times before I figured out how that was accomplished.

 

[IAStubborn]

I didnt notice that because none of that happened.

can someone ban this obvious k-state troll? He is obviously just trying to pick a fight and derail any meaningful discussion.

 

[GTO]

I noticed that the ball was stripped with the defender's right hand and the ball ended up in the defender's left arm when he was down. I had to rewatch the play 10-15 times before I figured out how that was accomplished.

I noticed that too. Makes me think maybe the ball touches the ground at some point and he picks it up with his other hand?