Consider this

[Bobber]

i think chizik will have success a lot faster than mcdermott

I never have quite figured out why Coach C seems to get a free pass from a lot of fans but not GMac. Perhaps it's because the basketball program has fallen further and our football success has been more limited than basketball.

I disagree. The hill is bigger and competition more fierce for the football program. Much smaller pool of players for basketball, so easier to make changes.

 

[CycloneWarrior]

Very good point. Guess who this guy is. He didn't win a conference championship until his 11th season as a head coach:

1975-76 Army 11-14
1976-77 Army 20-8
1977-78 Army 19-9
1978-79 Army 14-11
1979-80 Army 9-17
1980-81 Duke 17-13
1981-82 Duke 10-17
1982-83 Duke 11-17
1983-84 Duke 24-10
1984-85 Duke 23-8
1985-86 Duke 37-3

well, kryzewski did a great job, now mcdermott needs to do the same, but they have a lot more talent in the state of north carolina to recruit, and they are on the east coast in warm weather, which is a big advantage, i think if mcdermott can make uni good with a bunch of crappy recruits, than he can make isu do pretty good, cause if you remember, craig brackins was a 5 star recruit, thats a pretty good get for a team who went 14-16 the previous year, so mcdermott does know how to recruit, and when we start doing a little better it will be a lot easier to get some really good guards to come to isu, at least it other teams aren't giving them money and cars to come

 

[Steve]

True, however when you consider how bad UNI had been for so long before that, it was a huge job well done for him to make it to the Tourney. And then he does it three years. I'm not even sure if they made it more then once before that.

Excellent point, but it won't sway some of the consistent McDermott bashers. One of them is quick to give credit to Orr's career pre-ISU, but doesn't apply the same criteria to Greg. Some of them pick and choose "facts" to fit their agenda. I'm beginning to wonder if the agenda isn't simply to undermine the program and stir up trouble.

 

[cyclonenum1]

i think chizik will have success a lot faster than mcdermott

I absolutely agree. I think Chizik was a superb hire. Obviously, he needs to start putting some skins on the wall this year.

 

[cyclonenum1]

Ridiculous. He should have been fired from Duke after 2 seasons. That is completely unacceptable.

I hope you do understand that the "world" of college athletics has changed dramatically since the late 70s and early 80s...more exposure, more pay, more pressure. I can assure you that when coach K leaves, if the next guy starts out with similar success he will be gone quickly. It is just not the same today as it was 30 years ago.

 

[cyclonenum1]

I never have quite figured out why Coach C seems to get a free pass from a lot of fans but not GMac. Perhaps it's because the basketball program has fallen further and our football success has been more limited than basketball.

I disagree. The hill is bigger and competition more fierce for the football program. Much smaller pool of players for basketball, so easier to make changes.

Huh? McDermott is not getting a "free pass" from most of the Cyclone faithful?? Please!

I would say about 90-95% of the people on this board are in patience mode and more than willing to give McDermott at least three more years even though his only true successes have been landing Wesley Johnson and Craig Brackins. That would be 5 total years...even though many of these same patient people claim we really can't count the first year...heck, some even tell me we can't count this past year. In a sport where you can only put 5 out to play you should be able to "make it happen" in pretty short order.

Having said that, I am expecting to see a lot of progression with our FB team this fall. If I don't, I will certainly start to have my doubts about Chizik.

 

[Bobber]

I hope you do understand that the "world" of college athletics has changed dramatically since the late 70s and early 80s...more exposure, more pay, more pressure. I can assure you that when coach K leaves, if the next guy starts out with similar success he will be gone quickly. It is just not the same today as it was 30 years ago.

True. However that doesn't mean it's a better process today. If anything this example showed us that 70's and 80's patience paid in spades for Duke.

 

[Bobber]

Huh? McDermott is not getting a "free pass" from most of the Cyclone faithful?? Please!

Having said that, I am expecting to see a lot of progression with our FB team this fall. If I don't, I will certainly start to have my doubts about Chizik.

Some of the posters act like it's year 5 for Gmac(most don't however.)

Please.. Year 2 for Chizik and if you don't see progression for Chizik you'll have doubts? It's an easier schedule this year so he should do better, but I will not mind if his record is worse. It's still a work in progress and year 4 or 5 are the more important ones for me.

 

[cyclonenum1]

Some of the posters act like it's year 5 for Gmac(most don't however.)

Please.. Year 2 for Chizik and if you don't see progression for Chizik you'll have doubts? It's an easier schedule this year so he should do better, but I will not mind if his record is worse. It's still a work in progress and year 4 or 5 are the more important ones for me.

I do not understand this sort of thought process at all.

 

[hoosman]

Huh? McDermott is not getting a "free pass" from most of the Cyclone faithful?? Please!

I would say about 90-95% of the people on this board are in patience mode and more than willing to give McDermott at least three more years even though his only true successes have been landing Wesley Johnson and Craig Brackins. That would be 5 total years...even though many of these same patient people claim we really can't count the first year...heck, some even tell me we can't count this past year. In a sport where you can only put 5 out to play you should be able to "make it happen" in pretty short order.

Having said that, I am expecting to see a lot of progression with our FB team this fall. If I don't, I will certainly start to have my doubts about Chizik.

Did we out-recruit anybody to get WJ? Or is credit being given for finding hidden talent?

 

[Bobber]

I do not understand this sort of thought process at all.

It's quite simple. I look at the big picture.

This fall Gene will still be working with a team that's 1/2 Dan Mcarney guys. It going to take him 4 years before he has a team that is all his players and know his system.

It's short sighted to think any other way. Sure I want him to win more and he should win more, but your not giving him a fair shake if you think he's the Wizard of Oz.

 

[cyclonenum1]

Did we out-recruit anybody to get WJ? Or is credit being given for finding hidden talent?

I am for accountability. I hold the head coach accountable for the program from the minute they accept the job.

I will give credit where I see it is deserved. I think the recruiting of WJ and CB are the two biggest accomplishments of the McDermott era to date. To me it is really irrelevant whether we found a hidden gem or won a fierce recruiting battle with another school...these have been successes.

On the other hand, I will offer criticism where I believe it is deserved. We have had no wins that can be counted as upsets to show me that McDermott has some sort of superior coaching ability and we continue to have high player turnover which is a little disturbing.

 

[Phaedrus]

I am for accountability. I hold the head coach accountable for the program from the minute they accept the job.

That's roughly analogous to saying you hold your kids 100% accountable for being potty trained from birth.

And if your brand new puppy doesn't go "on the paper" you have him put to sleep.

Or if a pie you put in the oven isn't perfectly done after 30 seconds, you throw it away.

These things take time. It's *possible* McDermott isn't the coach for ISU, but I suggest a little teeny weeny bit of patience. Like 4 or 5 year's worth.

Schools have run off good coaches before, because of lack of fan patience. So if you want to fire a coach every year until one "succeeds", be careful of what you wish for.

 

[cyclonenum1]

It's quite simple. I look at the big picture.

This fall Gene will still be working with a team that's 1/2 Dan Mcarney guys. It going to take him 4 years before he has a team that is all his players and know his system.

It's short sighted to think any other way. Sure I want him to win more and he should win more, but your not giving him a fair shake if you think he's the Wizard of Oz.

I doubt anyone on a Florida Gator internet board would have been happy with Urban Meyer having more losses in his second year than his first. They expect success...every year.

Funny, when they won that National Championship in his second year I didn't hear a lot of talk about systems taking four years to implement and having to wait until your roster only has guys on it that your current head coach recruited.

 

[Oldgeezer]

I think Mr num1 if you were held to the same standards you are asking for Chizik and McDermott you would be unemployed in about 2 seconds.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

These things take time. It's *possible* McDermott isn't the coach for ISU, but I suggest a little teeny weeny bit of patience. Like 4 or 5 year's worth.

They do take time. And it's *possible* Morgan wasn't the coach for ISU, but some of us suggested a teeny weeny bit of patience. Like 4 or 5 year's worth.

 

[balken]

Very good point. Guess who this guy is. He didn't win a conference championship until his 11th season as a head coach:

1975-76 Army 11-14
1976-77 Army 20-8
1977-78 Army 19-9
1978-79 Army 14-11
1979-80 Army 9-17
1980-81 Duke 17-13
1981-82 Duke 10-17
1982-83 Duke 11-17
1983-84 Duke 24-10
1984-85 Duke 23-8
1985-86 Duke 37-3

Jim Criner? If so, you are forgetting his stint with the XFL's Las Vegas Outlaws.

 

[DClone]

I doubt anyone on a Florida Gator internet board would have been happy with Urban Meyer having more losses in his second year than his first. They expect success...every year.

Funny, when they won that National Championship in his second year I didn't hear a lot of talk about systems taking four years to implement and having to wait until your roster only has guys on it that your current head coach recruited.

You can't seriously compare the situation Urban Meyer inherited at Florida with what Chizik inherited at ISU. Let's compare oranges to oranges, not apples to oranges.

 

[BryceC]

Call me crazy... but I think Meyer inherited a little more in the talent department than Gene did. Nothing against our guys but Zook had continuous top 5 classes prior to Meyer showing up.

 

[cyclonenum1]

You can't seriously compare the situation Urban Meyer inherited at Florida with what Chizik inherited at ISU. Let's compare oranges to oranges, not apples to oranges.

You need to go back and read the thread...we have a lot of people on here that basically say what a new coach does really doesn't count until he has a team that is "his team" (ie: he has been at the helm for 4 or 5 years). I say that is bovine feces.

We should see progression in the number of wins each and every year during the building process. Some of the Cyclone faithful would have no trouble with us winning fewer games this year in FB because "Chizik doesn't have his team yet". Again I say bovine feces to that.

By the way, Florida was 7-4 under Zook the last year and just two years later was 13-1 with a big crystal FB trophy in the FB case...all this without having his team in place yet!

Frankly, this talk is nothing more than high level excuse making.